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Subject: [Deck] Shaper - Chaos - A little bit of this and that rss

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stepan levin
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Identity:
Chaos Theory: Wunderkind (Cyber Exodus)
Total Cards: (40)
Event: (15)
Modded (Core) x3
Test Run (Cyber Exodus) x3
Stimhack (Core) x2 ■
The Maker's Eye (Core) x3
Indexing (Future Proof) x1
Diesel (Core) x3
Hardware: (13)
Plascrete Carapace (What Lies Ahead) x3
The Personal Touch (Core) x3
Dyson Mem Chip (Trace Amount) x2
HQ Interface (Humanity's Shadow) x2 ■■
Cyberfeeder (Core) x3 ■
Program: (9)
Femme Fatale (Core) x2 ■
Gordian Blade (Core) x2
Magnum Opus (Core) x2
Corroder (Core) x2 ■■
Deus X (A Study in Static) x1
Resource: (3)
Personal Workshop (Cyber Exodus) x3

An earlier version used one of the Criminal consoles but I've run into situations where I need to be running HQ and a 1 in 5 chance or worse just doesn't cut it. One thing I wonder with most Shaper decks is if it is better to run Diesel, Quality Time or both. I chose Diesel with CT because of the smaller deck size, better economy and number of cards I run that I might want to hold in my hand. I like not relying on a resource economy but see how it's soft to some tag punishment like Closed Accounts and Psychographics. I've considered including Crypsis as another good target for personal touch but am not sure what I'd cut. Anyway any input is most welcome .
 
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rsda sdasd
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A couple of Dino's (to boost an icebreaker) or Toolbox (if you're worried about linkage) would help this deck with memory problems better than Dysons.

Taking out 1 Corroder for a Snowball will give you 2 influence for a Ninja since your only sentry breaker is a Femme, which gets expensive real quick.

I'm not a real big fan of using both The Personal Touch and Cyberfeeder without Replicator, and I don't think The Personal Touch is that good in a CT deck because of Dino, IMO.

You don't need 3 Plascretes and Test Run, 2 is just fine.

While I like Makers Eye its better with a couple of R&D Interfaces.

I agree that Modded and PW don't combo together.

Running 1 E3 Feedback Implants would be good.

1 Indexing doesn't seem like a good option, you should save that card space for something else.


SORRY its a lot but I prefer these types of constructive criticisms on my posted decks. Maybe something like this?

Chaos Theory: Wunderkind

Event (14)
3 Diesel
3 Modded
3 Sure Gamble
2 Test Run
3 The Maker's Eye

Hardware (15)
3 Cyberfeeder
3 Dinosaurus
1 E3 Feedback Implants
2 HQ Interface
2 Plascrete Carapace
2 R&D Interface
2 Replicator

Resource (2)
2 Public Sympathy

Icebreaker (7)
1 Corroder
1 Crypsis
1 Femme Fatale
2 Gordian Blade
1 Ninja
1 Snowball

Program (2)
2 Magnum Opus
1 
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stepan levin
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Like I said any input is welcome, thanks for taking the time to be thorough. However I'm not sure I agree with many of your suggestions.

I don't see how PW and Modded clash, Modded allows me to get out my 3 cost plus stuff immediately whereas PW is drip econ that I can use to have things like programs and Plascrete pre-installed for if I need them during runs.

I've found that if you're running Dino you want it out early and I just don't see 3 copies being worth the space unless I have something like Battering Ram, Crypsis or Darwin to combine it with. Toolbox is a good thought since it combines what Dyson and Cyberfeeders give me but is costly to get out and again its multiples are just taking up space.

Why only 2 Plascretes or Test Runs? Plascrete I can understand perhaps but Test Run is great for recyclying Femmes, getting Magnum Opus online asap, tutoring that program I need or picking up that key program from the heap that got trashed. I've been finding running 3 helps a lot against Jinteki, maybe I'm not playing enough to the meta or what is important when running in a tournament?

I had R&D Interfaces in here previously but I've found that Corps anticipate R&D diving from Shapers and guard it heavily, as well Snare seems to be a popular splash and against Jinteki I don't always want to be diving for a lot of cards. With Maker's Eye I can pick those times that I do want to dive, though I can see the synergy with Indexing if I ran more of it and all 3.

I quite liked my splash of 1 Indexing for late game when the Corp's R&D is getting low as a surprise in case his remote or HQ become fortresses.

Why would I run E3 Feedback Implants in a deck where none of the programs cost 2 to break a subroutine?

Why the Public Sympathy? Only time I've found it to be useful is in an Andromeda deck and even then I usually just run fast and cheap enough to be sure I can shave down to 5-6 cards on my first turn with a mulligan.

Why Replicator? Seems like it's best in decks with a lot of Hardware you want to get multiple copies of stuff out quickly, I guess it works with Public Sympathy to draw the deck faster?

I don't see the point in running inferior programs like Ninja or Snowball over multiples of better ones like Corroder and Femme. Ninja is going to cost me 4 every time whereas with personal Touch I will rarely have to spend anything on upping Femme's strength. Snowball is decent enough but I don't see why I'd bother running Corroder at all if I decided to have it in the deck.

I see neither of you mentioned anything about the merits of the various draw options available to Shapers, do you find Diesel to be enough in CT decks?
 
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Dennis Gadgaard
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Interesting deck; how do you find it's econ working?

Edit: Slimmed my question to the non-stupid part
 
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Brian H
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Magnum Opus isn't a credit generator?
 
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Dennis Gadgaard
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MavericK96 wrote:
Magnum Opus isn't a credit generator?
Yes I just realised that my mind had blanked that out while looking down the list. Hence my editing out the stupid part of the post

I'm still curious as to the experience with it's econ performance, since it looks like a deck I'm fiddling with, just at different take on the econ.
 
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stepan levin
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I haven't tested it extensively yet but in the games I've played it feels like it has just enough econ to get by. The only loss so far was to an NBN fast advance deck which was before I added the interfaces to address HQ problems and not an issue of econ.

Here is version 2.0:
Identity:
Chaos Theory: Wunderkind (Cyber Exodus)
Event: (18)
Modded (Core) x3
Test Run (Cyber Exodus) x3
Stimhack (Core) x3 ■
The Maker's Eye (Core) x3
Indexing (Future Proof) x1
Diesel (Core) x3
Infiltration (Core) x2
Hardware: (10)
Plascrete Carapace (What Lies Ahead) x2
The Personal Touch (Core) x3
HQ Interface (Humanity's Shadow) x3 ■■
The Toolbox (Core) x2
Program: (9)
Femme Fatale (Core) x2 ■
Gordian Blade (Core) x2
Magnum Opus (Core) x2
Corroder (Core) x2 ■■
Deus X (A Study in Static) x1
Resource: (3)
Personal Workshop (Cyber Exodus) x3

Ditched Dyson, Cyberfeeders and 1 Plascrete for 2 Toolbox, 2 Infiltration, 1 more HQ interface and Stimhack. Another combination I considered were 3 Compromised Employee and something but I find CE not good enough unless you get em out fast in an Andy deck. Also thought about a third Femme over Stimhack, I doubt I'll ever use the 3rd Stimhack but another bypass that can sit on a personal workshop until the right moment might be worth it. I can see too many HQ interfaces being an issue against Jinteki though...
 
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stepanlevin wrote:
Like I said any input is welcome, thanks for taking the time to be thorough. However I'm not sure I agree with many of your suggestions.

I don't see how PW and Modded clash, Modded allows me to get out my 3 cost plus stuff immediately whereas PW is drip econ that I can use to have things like programs and Plascrete pre-installed for if I need them during runs.

I've found that if you're running Dino you want it out early and I just don't see 3 copies being worth the space unless I have something like Battering Ram, Crypsis or Darwin to combine it with. Toolbox is a good thought since it combines what Dyson and Cyberfeeders give me but is costly to get out and again its multiples are just taking up space.

Why only 2 Plascretes or Test Runs? Plascrete I can understand perhaps but Test Run is great for recyclying Femmes, getting Magnum Opus online asap, tutoring that program I need or picking up that key program from the heap that got trashed. I've been finding running 3 helps a lot against Jinteki, maybe I'm not playing enough to the meta or what is important when running in a tournament?

I had R&D Interfaces in here previously but I've found that Corps anticipate R&D diving from Shapers and guard it heavily, as well Snare seems to be a popular splash and against Jinteki I don't always want to be diving for a lot of cards. With Maker's Eye I can pick those times that I do want to dive, though I can see the synergy with Indexing if I ran more of it and all 3.

I quite liked my splash of 1 Indexing for late game when the Corp's R&D is getting low as a surprise in case his remote or HQ become fortresses.

Why would I run E3 Feedback Implants in a deck where none of the programs cost 2 to break a subroutine?

Why the Public Sympathy? Only time I've found it to be useful is in an Andromeda deck and even then I usually just run fast and cheap enough to be sure I can shave down to 5-6 cards on my first turn with a mulligan.

Why Replicator? Seems like it's best in decks with a lot of Hardware you want to get multiple copies of stuff out quickly, I guess it works with Public Sympathy to draw the deck faster?

I don't see the point in running inferior programs like Ninja or Snowball over multiples of better ones like Corroder and Femme. Ninja is going to cost me 4 every time whereas with personal Touch I will rarely have to spend anything on upping Femme's strength. Snowball is decent enough but I don't see why I'd bother running Corroder at all if I decided to have it in the deck.

I see neither of you mentioned anything about the merits of the various draw options available to Shapers, do you find Diesel to be enough in CT decks?
I see the point on PW, I assumed you were using Stimhacks with it. Also, Public Sympathy is great with Stimhacks to combat against loss of hand size and for drawing power. A couple of those can help combat things like Snare!s and Scorched Earth, even helps against stacked Chums.

E3 is there solely for Bioroids, its awesome to get by an Accelerated Beta Test Janus with 1 click and 3 credits...

Replicator was suggested for getting out those Personal Touches and Cyberfeeders out at the same time. If you don't have both then its pointless to include. If you look at your first decklist you do have 13 hardware so I don't see how Replicator was hard to understand, especially when you're relying on Personal Touching those Femmes.

Having 3 HQ interfaces seems like a waste of 2 Influence, 2 should be sufficient. Then you could use it for something else, whatever it may be. (we obviously have different tastes, which is one of the reasons why I play Netrunner)

Diesel should be sufficient for CT.

Good idea on not including those CE's, they're horrible unless you get them early. Even then I don't even include them in my Andromeda deck.
 
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stepanlevin wrote:
I've found that if you're running Dino you want it out early and I just don't see 3 copies being worth the space unless I have something like Battering Ram, Crypsis or Darwin to combine it with. Toolbox is a good thought since it combines what Dyson and Cyberfeeders give me but is costly to get out and again its multiples are just taking up space.
Crypsis and Darwin can't sit on Dino. And if Dino isn't important to your rig (for me it's essential that Femme gets to sit on it, or if Eli stacked, Corroder sits on it), then you probably shouldn't run it anyway. I always run 3 - the cost of that extra dead draw or two is more than ok for what I need the Dino to do early.

stepanlevin wrote:
Why only 2 Plascretes or Test Runs? Plascrete I can understand perhaps but Test Run is great for recyclying Femmes, getting Magnum Opus online asap, tutoring that program I need or picking up that key program from the heap that got trashed. I've been finding running 3 helps a lot against Jinteki, maybe I'm not playing enough to the meta or what is important when running in a tournament?
I always run 3 Test Runs, not really a reason to drop below 3.

stepanlevin wrote:
I had R&D Interfaces in here previously but I've found that Corps anticipate R&D diving from Shapers and guard it heavily, as well Snare seems to be a popular splash and against Jinteki I don't always want to be diving for a lot of cards. With Maker's Eye I can pick those times that I do want to dive, though I can see the synergy with Indexing if I ran more of it and all 3.
Having 3 R&D Interface lets you get a deeper lock against many corps and lets you get the card earlier/more reliably. With Makers you can dive for 4/5/6 cards at a time. With Indexing you can pick up more than 1 agendas from the second run. Yes it encourages the corp to overice R&D, but that's great, that means they're weak everywhere else anyway. And as Shaper you can always outecon the corp on the ICE. Especially when each R&D Interface basically HALVES the cost to run R&D.

stepanlevin wrote:
I quite liked my splash of 1 Indexing for late game when the Corp's R&D is getting low as a surprise in case his remote or HQ become fortresses.
I like Indexing too much to have it as an unreliable maybe-draw.

stepanlevin wrote:
Why Replicator? Seems like it's best in decks with a lot of Hardware you want to get multiple copies of stuff out quickly, I guess it works with Public Sympathy to draw the deck faster?
Replicator is best in dedicated combo decks like you said. I don't think it's needed for a slim deck with big draw with the goal of rigging programs instead of HW.

stepanlevin wrote:
I see neither of you mentioned anything about the merits of the various draw options available to Shapers, do you find Diesel to be enough in CT decks?
I like to run both, typically 3 diesels 2 QT, because it just allows me to be more sure of my draw strength. It slims the deck down even more than CT's -5. And QT is made for Opus.
 
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stepan levin
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Here is the latest iteration:
Identity:
Chaos Theory: Wunderkind (Cyber Exodus)
Total Cards: (40)
Event: (14)
Test Run (Cyber Exodus) x3
Stimhack (Core) x3 ■
Indexing (Future Proof) x2
Quality Time (Humanity's Shadow) x2
Modded (Core) x2
Diesel (Core) x2
Hardware: (14)
The Personal Touch (Core) x3
HQ Interface (Humanity's Shadow) x3 ■■
R&D Interface (Future Proof) x3
Dinosaurus (Cyber Exodus) x3
Plascrete Carapace (What Lies Ahead) x2
Program: (9)
Femme Fatale (Core) x2 ■
Gordian Blade (Core) x2
Magnum Opus (Core) x2
Corroder (Core) x2 ■■
Deus X (A Study in Static) x1
Resource: (3)
Personal Workshop (Cyber Exodus) x3
Influence Values Totals -
Anarch: 7
Criminal: 8
Shaper: 66

I think I got too hung up on not using the full potential of Dino by getting it on a 2 MU program. I've found it's well worth the investment if I get it out early on the program that is going to see the most work, especially Femme and it's great to have another way to boost strength outside Personal Touch. I understand why Public Sympathy would run great with my Stimhacks and to combat Snare, Scorched, etc... but I can't think of what I'd drop to fit it, I feel like relying on the Deus X and Plascrete has to be enough and I just tread more carefully when running. I agree Indexing is just too good to not have at least 2 of in a deck. Might try to find a way to fit in a couple Infiltrate because I can see how running into an Aggressive Secretary that destroys my Personal Touched Femme being a big problem.
 
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Brian H
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Yeah, Femme or Mimic are my favorites on Dino.
 
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