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Subject: Jacking out of an unprotected server rss

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Martin Stiles
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Say the runner makes a run on R&D with no ICE protecting it. Does he get the option of jacking out or, being the first card approached, does he have to make the run successful and access cards?
 
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Alex Rockwell
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He can jack out. The run isnt successful.

The only reason to do this right now is to use something like Bad Publicity for a Workshop.
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Dennis Gadgaard
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pizzagoat wrote:
Say the runner makes a run on R&D with no ICE protecting it. Does he get the option of jacking out or, being the first card approached, does he have to make the run successful and access cards?


Timing Structure:

Step 1: If the attacked server does no have ice protecting it, go to [4].

Step 4: The Runner decides whether to continue the run.
... either the Runner JACKS OUT: go to [5].

Step 5: The run ends and is considered to be UNSUCCESSFUL.

Short answer: Yes, he gets the option of jacking out.

Edit; Fast answer: See Alexfrog
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Owen Compton
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Alexfrog wrote:
He can jack out. The run isnt successful.

The only reason to do this right now is to use something like Bad Publicity for a Workshop.


Or if your opponent's a hardball rule enforcer when it comes to taking back actions that haven't really changed the game state other than you using a click.

Why might this be relevant? You run an open R&D against Jinteki then realise a Snare or Fetal AI would kill you, so you ask to take your click back so you can draw some cards instead but your opponent is like "nope", thus you jack out.
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Martin Stiles
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Thanks for the clarification, I asked because I got the idea of using Jinteki RP with Dedicated Response Team, and wondered if they would HAVE to suffer the meat damage if they want to run on my remote servers.
 
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Dennis Gadgaard
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And no they don't, but they have to waste a click (if not running Doppelgangers).
Oh, and when running DRTs, Snare becomes quite dangerous.
 
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Dirk Tebben
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The Sacred Voice wrote:
Alexfrog wrote:
He can jack out. The run isnt successful.

The only reason to do this right now is to use something like Bad Publicity for a Workshop.


Or if your opponent's a hardball rule enforcer when it comes to taking back actions that haven't really changed the game state other than you using a click.

Why might this be relevant? You run an open R&D against Jinteki then realise a Snare or Fetal AI would kill you, so you ask to take your click back so you can draw some cards instead but your opponent is like "nope", thus you jack out.


What is the official rule on this, out of curiosity? I've never met anyone who was enough of a jerk not to let his opponent retract a move that hadn't changed the game state at all, but I might someday...
 
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stillnotking wrote:
What is the official rule on this, out of curiosity? I've never met anyone who was enough of a jerk not to let his opponent retract a move that hadn't changed the game state at all, but I might someday...


I don't think there's an 'official rule'. The official rule at a tournament would come down to the TO.
 
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Ryan Angell
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stillnotking wrote:
The Sacred Voice wrote:
Alexfrog wrote:
He can jack out. The run isnt successful.

The only reason to do this right now is to use something like Bad Publicity for a Workshop.


Or if your opponent's a hardball rule enforcer when it comes to taking back actions that haven't really changed the game state other than you using a click.

Why might this be relevant? You run an open R&D against Jinteki then realise a Snare or Fetal AI would kill you, so you ask to take your click back so you can draw some cards instead but your opponent is like "nope", thus you jack out.


What is the official rule on this, out of curiosity? I've never met anyone who was enough of a jerk not to let his opponent retract a move that hadn't changed the game state at all, but I might someday...


its interesting because ive run into a few situations where allowing someone to take back a move would be good for me ie they make a run, realize they die to a snare/junebug, regret the run but hit an agenda instead even though if they thought it through they wouldnt have run in the first in the place. lol another reason why its hard to play jinteki, sometimes the runner bumbles into your agendas when they fail to math out the potential net damage.
 
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Thomas Berton
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Alexfrog wrote:
He can jack out. The run isnt successful.

The only reason to do this right now is to use something like Bad Publicity for a Workshop.


Might also do it against Jinteki: RP if there's a Hokusai Grid installed on Archives, but no ice.
 
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Gregory Pettigrew
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stillnotking wrote:
What is the official rule on this, out of curiosity? I've never met anyone who was enough of a jerk not to let his opponent retract a move that hadn't changed the game state at all, but I might someday...


There is no such thing as a move that doesn't change the game state at all.
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João Almeida
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stillnotking wrote:
What is the official rule on this, out of curiosity? I've never met anyone who was enough of a jerk not to let his opponent retract a move that hadn't changed the game state at all, but I might someday...


It is not a matter of being a jerk, but as soon as you say "I'll make a run here", your opponent starts to give you tells/microexpression/body language/whatever you call it.

If you were able to read him/her, then regret to make a run and receive your click back... it would suck.
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Dirk Tebben
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etherial wrote:
stillnotking wrote:
What is the official rule on this, out of curiosity? I've never met anyone who was enough of a jerk not to let his opponent retract a move that hadn't changed the game state at all, but I might someday...


There is no such thing as a move that doesn't change the game state at all.


I'm talking about saying "I run HQ... no, wait, R&D." Stuff like that. Is there a "verbal actions in turn are binding" rule? Because honestly, you'd have to be a pretty big jerk to force the runner to hit HQ in that situation.
 
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Gregory Pettigrew
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stillnotking wrote:
etherial wrote:
stillnotking wrote:
What is the official rule on this, out of curiosity? I've never met anyone who was enough of a jerk not to let his opponent retract a move that hadn't changed the game state at all, but I might someday...


There is no such thing as a move that doesn't change the game state at all.


I'm talking about saying "I run HQ... no, wait, R&D." Stuff like that. Is there a "verbal actions in turn are binding" rule? Because honestly, you'd have to be a pretty big jerk to force the runner to hit HQ in that situation.


There was a huuuuuge discussion about this a while back. Your comment appears on page 11. Your opponent may give something away when you say "HQ", causing you to change your mind. Even on OCTGN, if I hit F6 when I meant F7, I pound on the "Wait!!!" button and ask permission to go back -- and I would not complain one bit if they said "No".
 
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Sonny A.
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Alexfrog wrote:
He can jack out. The run isnt successful.

The only reason to do this right now is to use something like Bad Publicity for a Workshop.


Or if the runner ran on his 2nd click and the corp just forfeited a false lead causing him to lose 2 clicks. Runner could be afraid to hit a snare and decide to jack out and not risk a tag.
 
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Dirk Tebben
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etherial wrote:
stillnotking wrote:
etherial wrote:
stillnotking wrote:
What is the official rule on this, out of curiosity? I've never met anyone who was enough of a jerk not to let his opponent retract a move that hadn't changed the game state at all, but I might someday...


There is no such thing as a move that doesn't change the game state at all.


I'm talking about saying "I run HQ... no, wait, R&D." Stuff like that. Is there a "verbal actions in turn are binding" rule? Because honestly, you'd have to be a pretty big jerk to force the runner to hit HQ in that situation.


There was a huuuuuge discussion about this a while back. Your comment appears on page 11. Your opponent may give something away when you say "HQ", causing you to change your mind. Even on OCTGN, if I hit F6 when I meant F7, I pound on the "Wait!!!" button and ask permission to go back -- and I would not complain one bit if they said "No".


That was in the context of someone who was doing it to gauge the corp's reaction. If I started a run and the corp rezzed ice or said "no rez", whether in OCTGN or real life, I'd consider that binding. OTOH, if absolutely nothing has changed and they haven't reacted in any way -- this particularly applies on OCTGN -- I'd consider it a dick move not to let me take it back.

What about playing a card from your hand, then changing your mind? If anything, that benefits your opponent.
 
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Gregory Pettigrew
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stillnotking wrote:
etherial wrote:
stillnotking wrote:
etherial wrote:
stillnotking wrote:
What is the official rule on this, out of curiosity? I've never met anyone who was enough of a jerk not to let his opponent retract a move that hadn't changed the game state at all, but I might someday...


There is no such thing as a move that doesn't change the game state at all.


I'm talking about saying "I run HQ... no, wait, R&D." Stuff like that. Is there a "verbal actions in turn are binding" rule? Because honestly, you'd have to be a pretty big jerk to force the runner to hit HQ in that situation.


There was a huuuuuge discussion about this a while back. Your comment appears on page 11. Your opponent may give something away when you say "HQ", causing you to change your mind. Even on OCTGN, if I hit F6 when I meant F7, I pound on the "Wait!!!" button and ask permission to go back -- and I would not complain one bit if they said "No".


That was in the context of someone who was doing it to gauge the corp's reaction. If I started a run and the corp rezzed ice or said "no rez", whether in OCTGN or real life, I'd consider that binding. OTOH, if absolutely nothing has changed and they haven't reacted in any way -- this particularly applies on OCTGN -- I'd consider it a dick move not to let me take it back.

What about playing a card from your hand, then changing your mind? If anything, that benefits your opponent.


If you want to continue that thread, do it there.
 
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