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Subject: Hand size limit? rss

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Dan Poole
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Can you start the turn with more than 8 cards? Or do you have to discard down to 8? The wording In the rules makes it sound like you only discard down below 8 if you want to draw more cards
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René Holzer
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voynix wrote:
Can you start the turn with more than 8 cards? Or do you have to discard down to 8? The wording In the rules makes it sound like you only discard down below 8 if you want to draw more cards

It`s like the wording sounds
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Dan Poole
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Thanks. I thought so but just wanted to be sure
 
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Kent
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spy007 wrote:
voynix wrote:
Can you start the turn with more than 8 cards? Or do you have to discard down to 8? The wording In the rules makes it sound like you only discard down below 8 if you want to draw more cards

It`s like the wording sounds


The wording does not state this. It is ambiguous. Could the designer or publisher or someone who has asked them this question directly please clarify with an answer?
 
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Russ Williams
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icarusmustburn wrote:
spy007 wrote:
voynix wrote:
Can you start the turn with more than 8 cards? Or do you have to discard down to 8? The wording In the rules makes it sound like you only discard down below 8 if you want to draw more cards

It`s like the wording sounds


The wording does not state this. It is ambiguous. Could the designer or publisher or someone who has asked them this question directly please clarify with an answer?

I believe the intent is that you simply interpret the rule "The active player discards any number of cards and then draws new cards from his deck to have eight cards in his hand." literally. It seems unambiguous.

You can discard cards. Then if you have fewer than 8 cards, then draw cards until you have 8.

I guess you perceive the later note "Note: If you have more than eight cards in your hand, because of the effect of previously played support cards you’ll have to discard cards to your moat and/or cellar before you can draw up to 8 cards." to be the ambiguous part? It is just explaining that if you have more than 8 cards, then (of course) you won't draw new cards, unless you discard some cards.
 
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Kent
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I agree with your rules interpretation.

If the active player's hand size remains at 8 or greater after discarding (or not), then no additional cards may be drawn. There is an implication that no discard is required at the beginning of the turn to reduce their hand size to 8 or less.

If the manual explicitly stated whether or not the active player could retain more than 8 cards at the beginning of their turn after discarding (or not), then no ambiguity would arise. The ambiguity results from not explicitly addressing the possible hand size cases coupled with possible actions. Specifically the case when the active player has a hand of more than 8 cards after discarding (or not) could use a mention or an example.

Thanks for the additional discussion.
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Mark Turner
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russ wrote:

I guess you perceive the later note "Note: If you have more than eight cards in your hand, because of the effect of previously played support cards you’ll have to discard cards to your moat and/or cellar before you can draw up to 8 cards." to be the ambiguous part? It is just explaining that if you have more than 8 cards, then (of course) you won't draw new cards, unless you discard some cards.


I didn't find this ambiguous so much as confusing...

I thought it was clear that discarding was optional... But then this line gives some suggestion that if you have more than eight cards, "you'll have to" discard before you can draw up to 8.

If this is a simple clarification, it seems redundant. This is why people might think it's actually a new rule, requiring discards.

Personally, I agree with the interpretation here - that discarding is always optional. So, I assume, is drawing cards, although I can see no reason why you would not want to draw.
 
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Russ Williams
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MrMT wrote:
Personally, I agree with the interpretation here - that discarding is always optional. So, I assume, is drawing cards, although I can see no reason why you would not want to draw.

A player "draws new cards from his deck to have eight cards in his hand" seems a clear statement of what the player must do, as opposed to something like "may draw new cards" or "draws any number of cards, not exceeding 8 in their hand". (But indeed, why wouldn't you want to draw up to 8 in any case?)
 
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Mark Turner
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russ wrote:
MrMT wrote:
Personally, I agree with the interpretation here - that discarding is always optional. So, I assume, is drawing cards, although I can see no reason why you would not want to draw.

A player "draws new cards from his deck to have eight cards in his hand" seems a clear statement of what the player must do, as opposed to something like "may draw new cards" or "draws any number of cards, not exceeding 8 in their hand". (But indeed, why wouldn't you want to draw up to 8 in any case?)


Except the previous rule would appear to trump that:

A turn consists of the following steps...:
1. Discard cards and draw new cards (optional)
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Russ Williams
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MrMT wrote:
Except the previous rule would appear to trump that:

A turn consists of the following steps...:
1. Discard cards and draw new cards (optional)

Indeed; OK, clearly it's been too long since I played this or read the rules carefully. So I confess ignorance.
 
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Mark Turner
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By the way, I assume that you must discard before drawing, correct? Ie, there's no question that you could draw up to 8, discard some of those, then draw some more...

Ie, to get something into your cellar, you have to effectively wait a turn between drawing and discarding. I feel pretty certain this is the intention, but wanted to make sure others agreed.
 
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Russ Williams
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MrMT wrote:
By the way, I assume that you must discard before drawing, correct? Ie, there's no question that you could draw up to 8, discard some of those, then draw some more...

The rule "The active player discards any number of cards and then draws new cards from his deck to have eight cards in his hand." seems pretty clear about discarding before drawing. (Do X, then do Y.)
 
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Jan Horinek
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So am i right that if i choose to carry out this step, and i have 10 cards in my hand, i discard 1 card and draw none (having 9 cards in my hand before that draw segment)?
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