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Subject: Why are There So Few Android Board Games and Will Ouya Change This? rss

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Zen Dochterman
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Dear Bgg,

Everyday I look at the new iOs releases of great games like Eclipse, Le Havre and Stone Age and ask, why don't Android users have an ever-growing selection of board game apps as well? Does anyone know why Android has lagged in this department?

And secondly, I may be grasping at straws but could the release of Ouya - the Android based console, encourage developers to start making board games for Android?

I don't want to have to buy an iPad just so I can play Eclipse!


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David Hoffman
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Because developers aren't making money developing for Android, and no.
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I've asked the same question on why no one is releasing these titles on the PC. Considering the number of PC's out there you'd think there would be a market for it. I own Ticket to Ride which I bought on Steam and quite enjoy it. I'd love to know the breakdown on their sales on the various platforms.
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Michael Off The Shelf Board Game Reviews
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ohbalto wrote:
Because developers aren't making money developing for Android, and no.


Myth.

The real reason is that Android is slightly fractured and people falling for an old myth that is being proven wrong but is fighting a losing battle versus perception.

See also Kindle decimating and Nook dieing.
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Michael Off The Shelf Board Game Reviews
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On a serious note I am curious how much Xbox1 Will help fuel the cardboard revolution (tm). Everyone with a wide angle high quality camera that offers real time chatting across a robust network powered by 300,000 servers.

Ya to me that sounds... good! No more wonky PC mini camera's full screen 50 inch TVs and a robust wide angle camera... the potential is.. amazing.
 
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shouldnt this be moved into computer gaming thread
 
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You can't handle the truth?
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Grumsh wrote:
ohbalto wrote:
Because developers aren't making money developing for Android, and no.


Myth.

The real reason is that Android is slightly fractured and people falling for an old myth that is being proven wrong but is fighting a losing battle versus perception.

See also Kindle decimating and Nook dieing.


Truth

Have some quotes:

" daily revenue in April 2013 generated by all applications in the top 200 grossing in Google Play was $1.1 million, while the daily revenue of the top 200 in the Apple App Store (both iPhone and iPad) was 4.6 times higher at $5.1 million"

"even when apps were offered in both U.S. app stores, Apple iOS apps generated more revenue."

So, not perception, but truth. Apple is still king.
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Moved from General Gaming to Computer Based Board Gaming
 
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Stephen Winterflood
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zendochterman wrote:
Dear Bgg,

Everyday I look at the new iOs releases of great games like Eclipse, Le Havre and Stone Age and ask, why don't Android users have an ever-growing selection of board game apps as well? Does anyone know why Android has lagged in this department?

And secondly, I may be grasping at straws but could the release of Ouya - the Android based console, encourage developers to start making board games for Android?

I don't want to have to buy an iPad just so I can play Eclipse!




Are the Android users only interested in versions of existing card and board games?

I am currently developing a card game on Android, as you may have seen on here, and plan a few more if it does well. Hopefully if I produce a quality game it will do well on Android as there are not many games in that area, but it seems to be hard getting people interested even though a lot keep asking where are their Android card and board games.
 
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Because Appstore is Better from crap Google play
 
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If you want to make a app for android, it has to fit on several different sizes of screens(tablets all have different size screens, phones etc.). Apple only has 4 sizes of screens(old iphone, new iphone, ipad and ipad mini). That's why
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Stephen Winterflood
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ppaddo wrote:
If you want to make a app for android, it has to fit on several different sizes of screens(tablets all have different size screens, phones etc.). Apple only has 4 sizes of screens(old iphone, new iphone, ipad and ipad mini). That's why


My first game works fine on different size screens, it is all about designing the game for the platforms you want to support. Apple have the 4 sizes and some games still don't work on all. The iPad also has several different screen sizes so you have to still keep the older ones in mind.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.Winterfloo...

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Maarten D. de Jong
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zendochterman wrote:
Everyday I look at the new iOs releases of great games like Eclipse, Le Havre and Stone Age and ask, why don't Android users have an ever-growing selection of board game apps as well? Does anyone know why Android has lagged in this department?

Historical reasons most likely, and associated momentum advantage for iOS:

— iOS was the first and so got in on the action first, giving it a crucial headstart in the chicken-and-egg problem of creating a new software ecology;
— iPhone and iOS had a major factor of 'cool' attached whereas Android was for dorky freaks who clamoured for 'open soressource' (which, as we all know, is inherently commie, viral, cancerous, and thus bad for employment and innovation);
— iOS also runs on just a handful of devices so compatibility testing (with for example screen size) is not an issue whereas Android is far more of a mixed bag;
— iOS grew out of OS X and shares some core libraries, so profited from people having programming expertise with the latter whereas Android has no such fallback: even though its kernel is Linux, the system bolted onto it bears little resemblence to that of a regular Linux computer;
— iOS uses Objective-C as its programming language, Android Java: the two are not compatible and would therefore require a developer to develop two separate applications (although, of course, there are ways around this, none of them easy, if you really want to);
— the first 'killer app' for smartphones, Angry Birds, was developed for iOS, and not Android;
— with iOS, a user has to deal with one app store, and one app store only whereas Android has several (which, to be honest, is both a curse and a blessing);
— with iOS support for an app is, as I understand it (wrongly??), partly offloaded onto Apple, freeing up developer resources to work on an app; this is not the case with Android where you support yourself what you create;
— specifically for boardgames: I seem to recall that iOS was more quick to add support for multiplayer games in the shape of standard libraries whereas Android took more of a roll your own-path here (thus diverting away developer time from what they want to develop: a game);
— specifically for boardgames: all of the above combined to create momentum for iOS, meaning that a boardgame publisher, who will most often hire an external partner for the smartphone port, will probably select one with iOS experience first. Those then gain experience in the specific crossover area, yaddayaddayadda.

Will matters improve? Hard to say. Hard- and software wise, both platforms are now equal in performance and maturity, although for various design reasons Android needs more power to do its thing. It is really up to the developers: nowadays saying that there isn't any money to be made with Android is baloney. The problem was, and still is, that the software ecology for boardgames is still rather frail: developers just don't want to be amongst the first penguins into the ocean. Once the basic groundwork has been laid out so that a developer can focus on the game rather than the stuff behind the game (multiplayer stuff, updates, support, ...), it will all become a lot easier. But that process takes time and money, and the question is whether an investor will want to spend these. It can be done, of course.

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I don't want to have to buy an iPad just so I can play Eclipse!

You can also buy the cardboard box to play the game meeple. But you certainly highlight the current dilemma for customers. Still I find it strange that many people are willing to spend tons of money on unproven and almost always mediocre Kickstarter games, yet would not support decent Android versions of known quality games. It's all about priorities, I guess.
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David Kershaw
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crambaza wrote:
Grumsh wrote:
ohbalto wrote:
Because developers aren't making money developing for Android, and no.


Myth.

The real reason is that Android is slightly fractured and people falling for an old myth that is being proven wrong but is fighting a losing battle versus perception.

See also Kindle decimating and Nook dieing.


Truth

Have some quotes:

" daily revenue in April 2013 generated by all applications in the top 200 grossing in Google Play was $1.1 million, while the daily revenue of the top 200 in the Apple App Store (both iPhone and iPad) was 4.6 times higher at $5.1 million"

"even when apps were offered in both U.S. app stores, Apple iOS apps generated more revenue."

So, not perception, but truth. Apple is still king.

Well i sell android apps and Google play accounts for about 25% of income. Amazon is 50%, and nook the remaining 25%. So just looking at play is misleading.
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Drake Coldwinter
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To understand the problem you need to understand the user base. When I got my iphone I was forced to shell out 169$ and a 3 years contract. My roommate laughed at me because he got a Galaxy 3 for free with a 2 years contract and paying 5$ less than me monthly.

Now you would think that as he got the phone cheaper and is paying cheaper per month he would spend more on applications... well in fact each time I buy an application on the apple store he comes to me to explain me how android has the same or very similar application but for free, hence android is better, also he is very proud to tell he hasn't spend a dime on applications while I'm forced to pay for the applications I wish.

Bottom line, android users are trained from day one to get things for free, then they are very resilient to change this behavior. Meanwhile Apple users pay from day one and keep paying day after day.

You get what you pay for.

------------------------
Now I'm a computer programmer, I got to see statistics and have 2 friends who work in cellphone games, one is project director at Ubisoft Quebec, the other works at Molecube. They have made games for Android and iOs. They make nearly 10 times more $ in iOs than in Android. Their only motivation to do it in Android is so that the rare android users who would buy the application will tell their iOs friends. Sometimes they even do the android version for free. From an economical viewpoint doing the the game in android is a pure waste of money(they don't do enough money to justify the developing costs), so they do it for marketing reasons only.

Now is funny than the android user base is bigger than iOs, yet iOs applications collect much more money in iOs than in Android. Some companies do twice, some triple and some even 10 times more on iOs than android, yet no company does more cash in android that iOs.
------------------------

The solution is in the android users hands. Buy games!
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drakecoldwinter wrote:
Bottom line, android users are trained from day one to get things for free, then they are very resilient to change this behavior. Meanwhile Apple users pay from day one and keep paying day after day.

Apple users pay from day one and keep paying day after day because it makes them feel special and important. That's also why they stand in line for days for the privilege of spending a small fortune on a newer and slightly better iteration of their phone.

Android users are practical, and will only pay for something that is truly worth the money.
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Bruce Saburn
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Jeez, how much longer are we going to beat this dead horse?! The flatist roadkill isn't this dead! If you want gaming options, choose Apple. If you want OS options, choose Android.
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The tablet to buy for board and card games is the iPad. Period.

When buying a tablet I was torn between the iPad 4 and the Nexus 10.

From everything I read at the time, the Nexus 10 boasts better hardware and a slightly better screen.

But I decided, regardless, to buy the iPad 4. Board games were the deciding factor for me.
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Maarten D. de Jong
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drakecoldwinter wrote:
Bottom line, android users are trained from day one to get things for free, then they are very resilient to change this behavior. Meanwhile Apple users pay from day one and keep paying day after day.

That used to be the case for the early adopters, yes, when the open source aspect of Android was still felt to be a selling point. With Android becoming mainstream it has been quietly dropped from all advertisements. I certainly don't associate 'Android' with 'free apps' any longer: most people have realised there's no such thing as a free lunch. (In addition they realised that 'value for money' is also often interpreted as an invitation to bleed them dry just the same.) And nowadays the top-of-the-line Android phones are in the same price ballpark as iPhones, requiring you to sign away your soul just the same. However, there are also Android phones which cater to the mid- and low end-segments of the smartphone market, and people buying those are perhaps not as likely to spend much money on apps, true... Then again, we don't know for sure as Apple fastidiously refuse to develop more economical models, so the hypothesis that by saving on the phone one creates more financial room for apps remains untested.

Quote:
You get what you pay for.

One would hope, yes. There is a cutoff point above which it just becomes marketing hype. And how much money did Apple and Google have safely tucked away in tax safe havens again...?

Quote:
From an economical viewpoint doing the the game in android is a pure waste of money (they don't do enough money to justify the developing costs), so they do it for marketing reasons only.

Okay, so what percentage of the iOS revenue is the result of their Android 'advertising scheme' then? It has to be a sizable amount, for otherwise there is simply no need to maintain code which only costs money to develop and maintain. And that would raise all sorts of interesting questions about why the company is then neglecting its Android arm, wouldn't it?

Also, it's slightly unfair to use Ubisoft as a comparison since that is a major games company which won't develop boardgame apps but certainly has the skills and capacity to do so, cross-platform even (which your example cannot be, by the way, otherwise porting the games would be much more cost-effective); and if I look at the comments on the single Molecube app for Android here then the vitriol about an app freezing the phone to the point where the battery has to be taken out does not exactly speak out in favour of the company's expertise in Android development, does it?

Quote:
Now is funny than the android user base is bigger than iOs, yet iOs applications collect much more money in iOs than in Android. Some companies do twice, some triple and some even 10 times more on iOs than android, yet no company does more cash in android that iOs.

Undoubtedly. Android has only recently been put on hardware which rivals iPhones for their abilities, at times surpassing them. It is therefore hard to argue that there is still room for revolutionary development on Apple's side. Android's core OS and user interface are now pretty mature now, too. Apple started out with a strong head start (they already had the concept of a store, for example); then used millions of its untaxed billions to sue with extremely silly patent suits which don't inspire consumer confidence either, and subsequently lost in many cases. Now they have to compete where they should: in the wallets of consumers. Don't write off Android just yet.

Quote:
The solution is in the android users hands. Buy games!

We'd love to. But from whom, aye, there's the rub: Ubisoft treats Android as a marketing gimmick, and Molecube releases a shitty app... whistle In any case, once I've properly configured my phone I'm certainly going to put my money where my mouth is.
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Maarten D. de Jong
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saburn wrote:
Jeez, how much longer are we going to beat this dead horse?! The flatist roadkill isn't this dead! If you want gaming options, choose Apple. If you want OS options, choose Android.

Quoted for posterity. Let's compare again in, say, 5 years' time?
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cymric wrote:
saburn wrote:
Jeez, how much longer are we going to beat this dead horse?! The flatist roadkill isn't this dead! If you want gaming options, choose Apple. If you want OS options, choose Android.

Quoted for posterity. Let's compare again in, say, 5 years' time?

But maybe he doesn't want to wait 5 years to play games, he probably wants to play games now.
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Board games on Android are free!!! No jailbreak required; sideloading FTW.

Greg
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Drake Coldwinter
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You are all very flamed by my comments, just don't take them personal.

Let me get something straight. I have used android and I think is a way better phone system than iOs... I don't wish we argue about which one is the better phone system, heck BlackBerry and Windows Phone are excellent phone systems, just check them and you will be impressed(even better than android imho), but the conversation isn't about the quality/functionality of the Os. I think Android is better Os than iOs(if you read my own comment, iOs would be the last phone Os in my book), yet I'm an iPhone user.

lwdgames wrote:
Apple users pay from day one and keep paying day after day because it makes them feel special and important. That's also why they stand in line for days for the privilege of spending a small fortune on a newer and slightly better iteration of their phone.

Android users are practical, and will only pay for something that is truly worth the money.


You can paint the color you prefer. Point is iOs users buy much more than android users. Your comments just prove this point. Hence the problem at hand, companies don't wish to devote too much efforts on android.



GSwarthout wrote:

Board games on Android are free!!! No jailbreak required; sideloading FTW.

Another happy android user who buys a lot of applications...

cymric wrote:

We'd love to. But from whom, aye, there's the rub: Ubisoft treats Android as a marketing gimmick, and Molecube releases a shitty app... whistle In any case, once I've properly configured my phone I'm certainly going to put my money where my mouth is.


Once again to the point, you have the trouble of the egg and the chicken. The matter isn't about tabletop games but about all games in general for all companies. You are saying that as today you are not still buying plenty of applications. Look around, all the android users say the same, phone not configure, waiting for quality, finding free alternatives/solutions.

Android users don't buy games as much as iOs, not even close. This is a fact and all companies know it.

Besides there is the piracy problem... Molecube was very upset their Epic meal time was pirated a lot on android, they had very very little sales and got very very little money from it, yet they could see truly a lot of users on android... fortunately it sold very well on iOs. Now put yourself in their position, they do an application in

iOs = very little pirating + lots of sales
Android = lot's of pirating + little sales

Now programming language is very different, so that you need specialized android programmers who will need to completely redo all the code... it's no wonder the companies devote so little efforts towards android. Same for Ubisoft, in the end they put very little efforts and resources to android, so you end up with sub par versions, then people don't buy them, so that the big companies devote even less efforts and resources...

Now you take the boardgame companies, is the same as Ubisoft but they are selling for even an smaller market, so the revenues from android are even smaller so the developing team even harder to justify... Also is hard for a company to support 2 or even 3 iOs versions + 3 (and more) android versions...android versions are even more prone to bugs because of the fragmentation and brand diversity.

The advantage of android is also it's Achilles talon. The situation will unfortunately not change for the moment.
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cymric wrote:
saburn wrote:
Jeez, how much longer are we going to beat this dead horse?! The flatist roadkill isn't this dead! If you want gaming options, choose Apple. If you want OS options, choose Android.

Quoted for posterity. Let's compare again in, say, 5 years' time?
5 years ago, "tables" as we know it didn't even exist. Talking about what might or might not be reality 5 years from now is fairly meaningless. Right now, if you wanna play games on your table, iPad is the way to go.
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drakecoldwinter wrote:
You can paint the color you prefer. Point is iOs users buy much more than android users.

Sure, because iOS users will buy any piece of crap that costs $0.99 or $1.99. Android users will pay for quality apps that are worth the price, but developers (and clearly a lot of people here as well) see how much money can be made by selling crap on iOS, so they focus on that.

If you are a developer, and producing something of quality is not really your thing, then yes, you should go make a killing on iOS.
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