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Subject: Am I psychotic or what? rss

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John Cullen

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Psychic, I meant psychic .... well ...

So, a buddy of mine and I played through the first day today. Slow going, I'm sure we got a lot of it wrong. But I'm very impressed. Compared to NT, it's much busier though. I like the cards, that is the tokens. The random factor is great. In any case ...

Half way through the first day I realized that I was developing a psychic ability. I could tell which of the reduced blocks was a 1 and which was a 2 even when the flags were covered. I thought, "Whoa, I must be in touch with the Great Oneness of Gameingness." Or maybe it was because the names on the stickers are set in slightly--mostly for the Union--or significantly--mostly for the Confederacy--different positions for 1's and 2's. (Check out the Anderson 1 and 2 reduced blocks.) Anyone else notice this?
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Peter Clinch
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If that is the case (I don't own the game so can't check), then as long as you show the names on the 2 blocks, you could then shuffle them face down before choosing one.

The usual gives away the fact that its a "1"cry ...unless he's bluffing devil

cheers
Pete
 
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John Cullen

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It's only slight for some, but significant for others. And yes, I'm going to suggest the shuffle thing. Or maybe the "pick a hand" method. But still, you're either going to reveal more information or not reveal as much. Are you going to show and shuffle, or shuffle and not show? It's a bit of a problem, but not irresolvable.
 
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Jesse Escobedo
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The whole point is to make sure they are placing the correct replacement. If you are playing a friendly trusting game, you need not look at the sticker side at all. The other option is to roll a die or flip a coin.

Jesse
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Rich James
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In a similar vein, artillery tokens have organizational matching requirements, yet the rules don't require you to reveal blocks to prove you have met the requirements (unless I have missed something). So a certain degree of trust is necessary to play the game.
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J Anderson
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That's a good point re. showing for org matching - is that a requirement? Most such things in NT would require showing and hence not very Bowen-esc if there is a no show rule.
 
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John Cullen

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Yes, I agree with all that. Most games are friendly ... well mostly friendly. And we can trust one another and all that, as long as we verify. But what happens in a tournament? The rules state that one player is suppose to show the other the blocks with their names visible but with the flags covered. This is in order to show that he is using the correct blocks. The other player is suppose to choose one supposedly not knowing which is which. But if you can tell by looking at the names which is which, well what then? When the components of the game defeat and in fact counter the spirit and intent of the rules, what do you do? And like you say, we can figure it out in friendly games. In tournaments though, something is going to have to be figured out. "Damn the torpedos, we follow the rules as written, full speed ahead!" Or, maybe not so much. I was primarily just making an observation in any case. I have no intention of following the rules as written.
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Seth Owen
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JohnJC wrote:
Yes, I agree with all that. Most games are friendly ... well mostly friendly. And we can trust one another and all that, as long as we verify. But what happens in a tournament? The rules state that one player is suppose to show the other the blocks with their names visible but with the flags covered. This is in order to show that he is using the correct blocks. The other player is suppose to choose one supposedly not knowing which is which. But if you can tell by looking at the names which is which, well what then? When the components of the game defeat and in fact counter the spirit and intent of the rules, what do you do? And like you say, we can figure it out in friendly games. In tournaments though, something is going to have to be figured out. "Damn the torpedos, we follow the rules as written, full speed ahead!" Or, maybe not so much. I was primarily just making an observation in any case. I have no intention of following the rules as written.
I've borrowed a die (I know Bowen's not a DR fan, but ... ) to cover situations like this. You could show the names for verification purposes and use the DR to actually choose the selected block if it appears that there might be a problem in the intended level of hidden info.
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Evil Bob
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For our first game, when I received a reduction I picked 2 blocks and held them in my hand, showing the only the names to my opponent. Then I flipped the blocks over, mixed them up, and held them out in my hand again with the backs facing my opponent. My opponent chose one. The entire process only took a few seconds.
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John Cullen

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I kind of prefer the "no show" method. I present my opponent with two blocks face down without showing him the names. He's got to trust that I've got the right blocks. If I show him the names and he can tell that I've got two 2s or two 1s or a 1 & a 2, even if they are randomized there after, he has gained some information. (And what's the point of randomizing in any case if it's two 2s or two 1s and the other guy can tell?) Yeah, I know, I'm being picky and anal. I'll play it any way my opponent wants to play it, just not by the rules as written.
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Jesse Escobedo
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It also seems silly to me to perform this when the Corps only has 1-strength replacements, or when it's the first casualty and there are at least two 2s available...

I like Evil Bob;s method for tournaments.
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John Cullen

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LordJesse wrote:
It also seems silly to me to perform this when the Corps only has 1-strength replacements, or when it's the first casualty and there are at least two 2s available...
Absolutely on the 1s. Will probably just skip it on them. On two 2s plus some 1s, someone was saying that you might want to use the 1s early on for tactical reasons. Not sure I fully understand or agree but I'll just skip the randomizing process for the blocks with just 1s for reduced blocks for the time being. Like you say, seems silly to do otherwise.
 
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Rich James
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With a well informed opponent, it wouldn't matter (with the 1s). But if the opponent doesn't have all blocks memorized, they would still suffer from some doubt whenever a block is reduced (what reduction blocks are available for Anderson again???).
 
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richard sivel
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Yes, even if your opponent does not know which block you bring into play, he still would know whether you had two 2's or two 1's or a 1 & 2.

That is some information. -- One way to solve this issue is to sort the blocks of each command into one group before the game and make the command be identifiable. After that, your opponent only sees the hidden side of the blocks. Whenever it comes to a reduction, you pick 2 blocks out of that group, you do not show the front to your opponnent, but he still would know that you picked 2 blocks of the appropriate command.

[EDIT for spelling and style]


p.s. When looking at the stickers graphics in the pre-pub state, it seems to me that all command names were placed identically.
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John Cullen

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I'm not all that well informed yet myself so I have a copy of the blocks at hand and I look at it. Some people might call that cheating. I call it a memory aid. But yeah, I take your point.

Anderson has two 2s and two 1s.

Pender is another one that is pretty obvious. He has one 2 and two 1s.

It's the Confederate Third Corps that's really the worst. But all of them, with the exception of Hood, Conf. First Corps., are noticeable if you look.
 
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I had a plan...
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We just held them out in closed hands.
 
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John Cullen

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autumnweave wrote:
We just held them out in closed hands.
Do you show first? Or do you just put them in your hand and the other guy trusts that you've got the right blocks?
 
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