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Subject: Zombie Navia Dratp? rss

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Dan Edelen
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The more I see this game, the more it seems like The Duke is Navia Dratp come back from the dead. But without the cool minis.

In what ways is that an incorrect assessment?

 
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Dan Edelen
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Lakoda wrote:
There are many similar mechanics but the rules seem to have some large differences. I encourage you to read them yourself.


Thank you for the feedback.

Can you share a large difference or two?

Lakoda wrote:
The major differences I noticed is that the duke isn't collectible, and when the movement pattern of a unit changes is different (less complicated).


That seems like a detraction. Navia Dratp seems to be as complex as it needs to be based on the type of game it is. If The Duke is less complex, that also seems like a step in the wrong direction.
 
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Thomas Diener
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The two games have some marked similarities,
the primary one being a Shogi-like "flip" revealing new abilities of pieces,
but are quite different in execution, strategy, and "feel".

The primary difference in mechanic is that
a 'drapt' requires an external cost paid ('gyullas')and
(generally speaking) happens once a game.
A Duke tile flips every time it moves, and with no external cost.

Additionally: the seven player Masetai of Navia are chosen purposefully out of the larger collectible set,
whereas in the Duke any and all of the basic 20+ tiles can (and indeed may be!) chosen randomly during game play.
(This is somewhat less of a difference when you consider the Duke's promo and expansion sets:
the expansion sets create some measure of "collectibility", although designed to be used as specific Scenario replacement tiles.)

Secondary differences include the size of the board (which makes a startling strategic difference),
and the secondary victory condition of Navia collecting 60 gyullas (a Navia Drapt).
Indeed: gyullas manipulation is a major component of Navia's over-all play.
The Duke has no such secondary mechanic.

The thematic difference is dramatic
(and I quite like both the Duke's The hefty wooden tiles and their pseudo-classical feel
and Navia's 3-D modern fantasy/anime sensibility)
but the real differences are the Drapt vs Flip and Gyullas secondary mechanic.

IMHO:
Although the Duke designers may have looked long and hard at Navia for inspiration (or Not; I honestly don't know),
the two games are more correctly viewed as both sibling descendants of Shogi (rather than the Duke being derived directly from Navia).
They really play quite differently,
despite the obvious superficial similiairity of the 'flip' mechanic.
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Dan Edelen
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Thanks, Thomas! Rockin' explanation there.
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Rye Stevenson
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Good comments Thomas! However, I feel like you just scratched the surface with the differences.

While I totally agree that there are a lot of similar ideas, I think they are totally different games, with totally different play styles.

Other major differences that I would mentions:
Navia dratp has three separate victory conditions while The Duke has one.
Navia dratp has a resource (gyullas) which can give victory, or promote the main pieces.
Navia dratp has pawns which don't promote, but start on the board and can "line over" if they make it to the other side.
Navia dratp promotions are fairly permanent affairs, while The Duke has pieces flipping back and forth regularly.
Navia dratp has a larger board with promotion spaces and summoning spaces.
Navia dratp has no random elements or hidden information. In The Duke, you can't look at the flip side of your opponents pieces, (try to work from memory!), but Navia dratp supplied memory aid cards for the opponent faced with unfamiliar pieces.

In the end, Navia Dratp is a much deeper game, with a much longer playing time, which is both good and bad. Navia dratp comes out very rarely on my table, in spite it being one of my favorite games of all time. I've found that many players find it very heavy, with the new player at a serious disadvantage. As rewarding as it is when someone takes the time to get over the beginner stage, there is a much greater investment involved. The Duke is explained quickly, plays quickly, and has the extra spice of chance thrown in.
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