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Subject: Normandy '44, Battle for Normandy or Breaktout: Normandy? rss

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Erathor Erathor
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Among Normandy '44, Battle for Normandy and Breakout: Normandy, which one would you recommended?
 
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Nick Avtges
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Yes.
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Erathor Erathor
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Yes?
 
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Joe Kundlak
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Exactly.
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Nick Avtges
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Seriously, they are all great games in their own way. It is impossible to recommend one over the other without knowing a little bit more about what you want out of a Normandy game.
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Erathor Erathor
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Sorry, my English is bad. You mean you will recommend Normandy '44?
 
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Erathor Erathor
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nix342 wrote:
Seriously, they are all great games in their own way. It is impossible to recommend one over the other without knowing a little bit more about what you want out of a Normandy game.
Hmmm...I searched through BGG, and found they are almost similar. Hard to make decision which one to buy. I need second opinion on this....

Thanks for reply guys.
 
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    It's humor. "Yes" means all three are good games. Breakout Normandy likely has the best reputation. I haven't played all three so I can't compare them for you.

             S.

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HMS Iron Duke
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That is a very broad question as the games are very different in scope, footprint, and mechanics (in the case of Breakout).

I own Normandy '44 and Battle for Normandy but I can only speak with small familiarity on Breakout.

Normandy '44 is a regimental scale game covering the first month or so of the battle. The town furthest south is Falaise on a 2.3 mile per hex scale. The game is only a single map and the mechanics are generally similar to Ardennes '44. The game has three scenarios: Cherbourg, a seven day scenario to link the beaches and the full 22 day campaign.

Battle for Normandy is a battallion level monster game. Where N44 has one map, BfN has five. Where 506th PIR is a single counter in N44, it should be 3 counters in BfN. Caen is 4 hexes in N44, it is 12 in BfN. The map also goes deeper into France. Falaise is about halfway into the second map south. I don't have my maps handy but the pictures on the geek look like they go all the way to Angretan (sp?) and Fleur (sp again ?) There is also an expansion that takes the game even further south. If you have the space and time for a monster like that, my hat is doffed to you. I'll get it on the table someday, just not now.

Breakout Normandy is a different beast, using area impulse like Storm over Arnhem. The game is between the other two in terms of footprint. I can't speak much for the mechanics but IIRC BN is one of the most highly thought of area impulse games from that series.

So, how much time and space do you have? How granular a level of control do you want? How much can you afford to spend to get one or more of these games (which are all fine games).

Personally I'd pick up N44 if you can as it is a good compact game with a good ruleset.
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Erathor Erathor
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Thank you Mike, I think I will leave Monster game alone first, since I am a very "fresh" war gamer (newbie). I owned D-Day at Omaha Beach, Panzer (2nd Edition) and Thunderbolt Apachee Leader (mostly solitaire game), and would like to venture deep into war game world. I am interested with Normandy theme, so I guess I will start somewhere from here.
 
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Nick Avtges
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...and I apologize for being a bit snarky.

I really don't think you can make a wrong decision here, especially when choosing between Normandy '44 and Breakout: Normandy. They are very different style games, though. Normandy '44 is much more in the old school classic hex-and-counter mold, but in a very good way. Breakout: Normandy is quite different, and the area-impulse system brings its own tension, which is very nice.

Both games play solo very well, if that's your primary interest. Breakout: Normandy, in particular, with its variable length turns, is quite good in this regard.
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Todd Reed
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I'm currently at the tail end of the 22 turn Normandy '44 campaign. You can see a video a day in the video section. Lots of decisions and depth here. Lots of variability due to weather. I think you'll get a lot of Replayability out if this one.

Lot of exceptions to keep track of, but that also means there are lots to think about which is a good thing.

I recently acquired BN, so no experience w it yet.

BfN may never happen only because of the size.

All three games are highly thought of.
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Michael Lucey
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Normandy '44 is a classic hex and counter simulation of the battle. It nicely simulates the strategic situation of the battle with the historic units and reinforcement time-frames on a hex bound map of the actual battlefield. I believe Battle for Normandy is roughly the same, I've only played 2 of the 3. N'44 and BfN are similar relative to BKN

BKN is an area/ impulse non-simulation if you will of the battle. The areas and impulses make for tense FtF (or PBEM) interaction between the players because of the immediate back and forth nature of the impulse system as well as the variable turn end caused by the impulse track. The map is sectioned off in strategically important areas of the actual battle area.

It's strictly personal gaming style, some people need hexes and zoc's to dictate the interaction of units as well as the UgoIgo system of turns. Other people are fine with areas dictating the strategic importance of the map and like the back and forth impulse system of unit interaction. Both are great at re-creating the historical setting and 'feel', but each style plays differently within the turns of the game. So first determine of you want BKN or one of the other 2, then I'll leave that comparison to others for which of the 2 hex and counter games you might like better.
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Tom Stearns
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Disagree that Breakout Normandy has better reputation. N44 is hands down a better game and design. Highly recommend OP start with N44. BfN is at this point the ultimate Normandy game but not recommended as a starting point for a new wargamer. I responded in a little more detail on other thread with same title.
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Brian Crawford
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I can only speak to Normandy 44. I first bought The Caucasus Campaign which basically uses the same system and really liked the outcome, experience and flavour. Normandy 44 was no disappointment, I really enjoy this game very much and can recommend it to any wargamer. Another plus is that Mark the designer is very active and open to answering questions and helping out when he can. I was in contact with him for one issue and he was extremely happy. I have never had direct contact with a board designer before.
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Fernando Darlington
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I own (or previously owned) all three.

Breakout Normandy is really good as a game, but lacks as a simulation as it gives the german far more options they really had.

Normandy 44 I think is the best of this lot. Great game.

Battle for Normandy, played it and sold it. Too many flaws and very a-historical.
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David Perry
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Fernando Darlington wrote:
I own (or previously owned) all three.

Breakout Normandy is really good as a game, but lacks as a simulation as it gives the german far more options they really had.

Normandy 44 I think is the best of this lot. Great game.

Battle for Normandy, played it and sold it. Too many flaws and very a-historical.
Could you expand on this, enjoy the game though only looked at scenarios. I would be interested to read your take on the game
 
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Fernando Darlington
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topographic wrote:
Fernando Darlington wrote:
Too many flaws and very a-historical.
Could you expand on this, enjoy the game though only looked at scenarios. I would be interested to read your take on the game
Apologies David, I've just seen your message.

Sure. I'm harsh on this game, but it was a sad dissapointment for me. It's a beauty, the map and counters are fantastic and a lot of work has been done on the OOB. I know many people enjoy this game, unfortunately I was not one of them.

First I think the worst flaw is a design one; The game tries to be a detailed monster and simple at the same time. For the sake of this simplicity the mechanics have been tweaked so it's not an allied sweep in the first turns.

To avoid the allies destroy the germans soon the way of doing it is limiting the allied supply. Few supply=few germans units lost.

Germans do not have supply problems so with the silly artillery rule of bombarding and having to roll equal or under the artillery unit value to score a hit, the game is an attrition match with the germans making pot-shots at the allies until the allies save enough supply points to mount an offensive to destroy some more german units until supply stops, save, attack again while the german artillery bombards.

Another tweak, to avoid the germans destroying too many allied in these unrealistic bombardments the allied can make counter-battery fire to german artilleries that shoot this way without spending supply. Why having to spend supply if you shoot at the same artillery units first and not if they shoot first?, difficult to understand unless it's for balancing the game.

I think the supply points for the allies tries to model the allied build-up that happened in Normandy the first weeks, but I do not think it's well modeled at all. The mulberries are far more important than they really were and the allied are too tight on supply, a single storm can make the allied game miserable. Also the germans do not suffer any supply problem at all, the allied air power is used only to destroy enemy units and slow their movement. But if you try to implement the germans supply problems it's game-over for the germans too soon.

Other problems are:
- The armor use: you need a tank to gain a combined arms shift (+1 to the die roll) but anything can deny it. It doesn't matter if you attack with kingtigers, if the defender has a single AT or Stuarts the bonus is negated.

- No british-american armies boundary line. American and british can freely mix in the other territory though they can not attack together.

- There are german super-artillery units (factors 10 and 12) that ensure a destroyed allied step (infantry, tanks, whatever) when they fire, and far better than the british AGRAs (8 the strongest ones). I suppose it's for balancing but it's completely unreal.

- Divisional integrity is done with the HQ supply distance, but when attacking you can mix the units as you like.

- The landing is a dicefest. To advance and destroy an enemy step you have to roll higher than your attack factor, like with the artillery.

- The german Flak is oversized (again I guess for game-balance).
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David Perry
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Fernando

very interesting, i guess it's a case of how far you can enjoy a game when you can identify historical flaws. Perhaps this is a classic game v simulation conflict.I will be interested to see how the game feels when i finally get this big boy to the table in its entirety.
 
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