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Subject: Cooking/Breeding question rss

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Mike Boucher
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Question on the rules - just want to make sure I have this right. Assuming I have a fireplace/cooking hearth - when are the times when I'm NOT allowed to cook sheep/boars/cattle? Is it only when in the breeding phase?
Reason I'm asking is in the iOS app is a couple of times I've been burned by having animals that I wasn't able to place but it also wouldn't let me cook. Is that because you are not allowed to feed your family when you are breeding? Meaning if you don't have room/space for the animals when you breed then you just lose them and can't cook them while they are unplaced?
Want to make sure I'm understanding that part correctly. Thanks in advance!
 
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Joe Brown
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You are on the right track. You cannot cook animals during the breeding phase. Even, if you are making room for a different type. The app forces you to recognize these situations and cook the animals during the feeding phase. And, as you found out, you may not cook animals during the feeding phase because you dont need the food only to then realize that you need room for a boar when you have too many sheep.

This is to be fixed in the next update. The fix will allow you to go back to the feeding phase and cook if need be and then go into the breeding phase.

Either way, no cooking during the breeding phase.

Hope this helps
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Mike B
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mabouche wrote:
Meaning if you don't have room/space for the animals when you breed then you just lose them and can't cook them while they are unplaced?
This is true. I don't think there are any restrictions on cooking animals except during the breeding phase of the harvest.
 
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Nat Levan
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You may cook animals at any time, including during breeding. But you must follow the order at harvest and feed your family before breeding animals. This is to ensure you cannot breed an animal and turn the same animal into food to feed your family in the same harvest. You do not need a place to put the new animals before cooking them, and may turn animals directly into food that can be used from that point forward.

Edit: Have we been playing this wrong, or is this implemented differently in the app? Why would this be different from taking animals from an action space and cooking them without room.
 
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Shawn George
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Sivilized wrote:
You may cook animals at any time, including during breeding.
This is incorrect. Per the rulebook:

Quote:
Baby animals and parent animals may not be converted into Food immediately after the birth (for example, if you only have room for two animals of that type); they simply run away if they cannot be accommodated.
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Trevor Schadt
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Sivilized wrote:
You may cook animals at any time, including during breeding. But you must follow the order at harvest and feed your family before breeding animals. This is to ensure you cannot breed an animal and turn the same animal into food to feed your family in the same harvest.
This part is correct. However, see below.

Sivilized wrote:
You do not need a place to put the new animals before cooking them, and may turn animals directly into food that can be used from that point forward.
This part is NOT correct. You CANNOT cook newborn animals, and if you only have 2 of a given type of animal, you CANNOT cook one of the "parents" in order to make room for the newborn. If you have no room for a newborn, it runs away.

If, however, you have (as an example) 3 sheep before the breeding occurs, you can cook one of them to make room for the newborn (because you still have the minimum 2 necessary to breed).

It is a common shortcut to avoid confusion over "who the parents are" to simply say that you cannot cook animals during the Breeding Phase of a Harvest. That is not completely correct, but as there is no functional difference between "the end of the Feeding Phase" and "the start of the Breeding Phase," it is often easier to simply explain to new players that they have to cook whatever animals they're going to cook by the end of the Feeding Phase.
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Nat Levan
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Hmm. Haven't read that segment of the rules in a long time. Has it always been that way, or was that clarified/added in a later edition?
 
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Nat Levan
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And for further clarification, must all animals be bred at once? If you have exactly 1 free space and 2 of each animal, can you only gain 1 animal total, or would you be able to breed-cook-breed-cook-breed?
 
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Trevor Schadt
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Sivilized wrote:
And for further clarification, must all animals be bred at once? If you have exactly 1 free space and 2 of each animal, can you only gain 1 animal total, or would you be able to breed-cook-breed-cook-breed?
You can't cook any newborn animals or any parent animals. Period.

So, if you have 1 free space and exactly 2 of each animal, you choose which one you want, and the others run away.
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Mike Boucher
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Thanks for the clarification! Makes sense to me now.
 
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Matt Shields
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Sivilized wrote:
Edit: Have we been playing this wrong, or is this implemented differently in the app? Why would this be different from taking animals from an action space and cooking them without room.
The reason it's different than cooking animals when you take them, is because rules specifically prohibit cooking animals during the breeding phase.

The only dispute, which I think Trevor and I disagree on, is whether this applies to ALL your animals, or whether it only applies to the newborns and to two other specific animals of the same types as your newborns.

My opinion is that every animals you have which is not a newborn is a "parent". I believe this has been confirmed by Uwe at some point, and seems to be how the app is written.
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Trevor Schadt
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TwitchBot wrote:
Sivilized wrote:
Edit: Have we been playing this wrong, or is this implemented differently in the app? Why would this be different from taking animals from an action space and cooking them without room.
The reason it's different than cooking animals when you take them, is because rules specifically prohibit cooking animals during the breeding phase.
And also, the rules specifically allow you to cook animals when you take them from an action space if you don't have room for them.

(Edit to add side note: actually, the rules DO NOT "prohibit cooking animals during the breeding phase." The rules lay out very specific circumstances under which you can and cannot cook animals during the breeding phase.)

(2nd edit: side note is addressed in the edit to Matt's post, and his edit ninjad mine)
 
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Trevor Schadt
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TwitchBot wrote:
The only dispute, which I think Trevor and I disagree on, is whether this applies to ALL your animals, or whether it only applies to the newborns and to two other specific animals of the same types as your newborns.

My opinion is that every animals you have which is not a newborn is a "parent". I believe this has been confirmed by Uwe at some point, and seems to be how the app is written.
I would very much like to see that confirmation, because yes, that does seem to be the dispute (and, as I recall, is a wording dispute that you and I have had more than once, Matt ).
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Matt Shields
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ryudoowaru wrote:
TwitchBot wrote:
The only dispute, which I think Trevor and I disagree on, is whether this applies to ALL your animals, or whether it only applies to the newborns and to two other specific animals of the same types as your newborns.

My opinion is that every animals you have which is not a newborn is a "parent". I believe this has been confirmed by Uwe at some point, and seems to be how the app is written.
I would very much like to see that confirmation, because yes, that does seem to be the dispute (and, as I recall, is a wording dispute that you and I have had more than once, Matt ).
I could be totally wrong about that. I thought that we had a ruling on that, but the last time I searched for it I couldn't find it.

Really my position is that the best practice is to not think of the breeding phase as a period of time during which you do stuff, but simply as an event that happens after you feed. I don't think there are any cards that actually say "During the breeding phase you may..." but there are so many new ones it's hard to keep track.

You're totally right though that it basically doesn't matter. You can cook right "before" the breeding phase and you can cook right "after" the breeding phase. As long as you plan ahead it should really ever get burned by this.
 
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Benjamin Kerenza
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TwitchBot wrote:

You're totally right though that it basically doesn't matter. You can cook right "before" the breeding phase and you can cook right "after" the breeding phase. As long as you plan ahead it should really ever get burned by this.
As far as I was aware the actual rules only regard the not eating of newborns but using the rule about not cooking over breeding achieves the same ends but is easier to understand.
 
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Eugene van der Pijll
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TwitchBot wrote:
My opinion is that every animals you have which is not a newborn is a "parent". I believe this has been confirmed by Uwe at some point, and seems to be how the app is written.
I don't agree with that, that all animals are the parents of that single newborn, and so the rules say that you can slaughter other animals in the breeding phase, but Hanno has officially declared that you cannot.

That means that there are two different official rules, and you can follow either of them, because in practice they are exactly equivalent in all cases. Hanno's rule is easiest to follow.

A link to Hanno stating this should be in the HTML version of the Agricola compendium, but I'm too lazy to look it up.
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Eugene van der Pijll
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TwitchBot wrote:

You can cook right "before" the breeding phase and you can cook right "after" the breeding phase.
No, that's the wrong way to look at it. The breeding phase is a separate phase of the game, and you cannot cook right before or right after breeding while you're still in the breeding phase.

You can cook in the phase immediately before the breeding phase (almost always the feeding phase), and in the phase immediately following the breeding phase (almost always the "start of the round" phase), if any. This does make a difference in some cases in the harvest following round 14.
 
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Derakon Derakon
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I've always thought of it as just being "Animals do not breed if there is no room for the newborn". This works unambiguously in all situations except one occ that lets you cook newborns even if you don't have room for them (Early Riser, I think). shake
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Matt Shields
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Derakon wrote:
I've always thought of it as just being "Animals do not breed if there is no room for the newborn". This works unambiguously in all situations except one occ that lets you cook newborns even if you don't have room for them (Early Riser, I think). shake
There's also an improvement that lets you put a newborn you don't have room for on the card or something. Then it only counts for points, but you can't eat it.
 
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Matt Shields
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pijll wrote:

You can cook in the phase immediately before the breeding phase (almost always the feeding phase), and in the phase immediately following the breeding phase (almost always the "start of the round" phase), if any. This does make a difference in some cases in the harvest following round 14.
Is there a ruling on the Round 14 situation?

Can I cook an animal after breeding in round 14? For example in order to get points for Pelts or Schnitzel Mallet? My understanding was you can not.
 
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Mike Boucher
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So wait, I can't cook before or after the breeding phase, but I can cook in the phases immediately before or immediately after the breeding phase? Got it.

Just seems like we're over complicating it at this point. I like the simple interpretation that you can't place a newborn if you don't have room for it - assuming you don't have cards that give you a way to do that. Done!
 
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Eugene van der Pijll
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TwitchBot wrote:
Is there a ruling on the Round 14 situation?
Yes. You can't cook animals after the harvest in round 14. There's a reference in the HTML compendium somewhere. Probably at the section on Pelts, or that occ that you can pay food per unused farmyard space.
 
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Odin Black
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Indeed we are complicating things, but there is more than one issue here.

Newborns:
They only come if there's space. You can't cook a parent to make space. You can't cook a newborn for which there's no space, because it never arrives at your farm. All newborns arrive simultaneously, if it matters.

Cooking animals:
Once they are on your farm, go ahead and cook them. Note that breeding is after feeding, so cooking your recently birthed sheep gives you 2 food that you can't eat until next harvest.

Final round:
I understood that you can't do anything at all after final breeding, including work pelts etc. I never liked or understood that rule though.
 
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Geoff Burkman
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Cunning wrote:


Final round:
I understood that you can't do anything at all after final breeding, including work pelts etc. I never liked or understood that rule though.
All it really does, really, is absolutely prevent you from cooking any newborns. You can still cook whatever animals you wish during breeding, so long as you don't break the newborn rule. In no way are you prevented from scoring legitimate Pelts points, or Hide Farmer points, or whatever. You simply have to make sure you cook whatever you're going to cook before your Breeding phase is over.
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Suppose you have 2 cattle and Hide Farmer and it is harvest for round 14. My understanding is that you can cook a cow before the breeding phase, but then they won't breed. Or you can let them breed, but then there is no opportunity left to cook them. There is no way to use the 3rd cow for food for Hide Farmer. Is that right?

Assuming that is correct, the simplest formulation of the rule is "you can't cook animals during the breeding phase".

It's equivalent to say "you can't cook the parents or newborns during the breeding phase" because you can cook any other before breeding without having an effect on breeding.

It's not good enough to say "you can't cook newborns (during the breeding phase)" because in my example you could cook one of the parents after they bred and end with 2 cattle plus food from the third.
 
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