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Subject: Drawing the Dog as a starting survivor? rss

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Stuart Gairns
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Played this game twice, and twice this has come up...

If you draw the dog in your "starting draw" (the draw specified by the scenario card), what happens?

There's text on the dogs card to the effect of "Doesn't count as a survivor" ;

So I take it you can have a max 5 squad if you have the dog with you?
Also, all he does is allow an extra food draw, add a mellee attack dice, and carry a single item.

So, if you draw the dog as a starting survivor... do you just accept it and carry on? (meaning you are only at a starting hand limit of 5 instead of 8 - and also down a weapon wielder - which can be a BIG handicap during the scavenge phase.)
Do you pay attention to the "doesn't count as a survivor" text on the card and draw another survivor to start with?
Or do you discard the dog and draw a new survivor?!

I searched and couldn't find the answer.

This is a fun game, but could be the single WORST written rule book I've ever had to use. The entire game seems completely ambiguous and open to interpretation.
 
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K. Hadley
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Just house rule it as a redraw and take the next survivor. You're right about the rulebook though, it has holes.
 
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Stuart Gairns
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We decided the Dog was called "Lucky"; so we drew another survivor

Is 'every' rule a house rule?!?!
 
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zee Parks
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macnme wrote:
Played this game twice, and twice this has come up...

If you draw the dog in your "starting draw" (the draw specified by the scenario card), what happens?

There's text on the dogs card to the effect of "Doesn't count as a survivor" ;

So I take it you can have a max 5 squad if you have the dog with you?
Also, all he does is allow an extra food draw, add a mellee attack dice, and carry a single item.

So, if you draw the dog as a starting survivor... do you just accept it and carry on? (meaning you are only at a starting hand limit of 5 instead of 8 - and also down a weapon wielder - which can be a BIG handicap during the scavenge phase.)
Do you pay attention to the "doesn't count as a survivor" text on the card and draw another survivor to start with?
Or do you discard the dog and draw a new survivor?!

I searched and couldn't find the answer.

This is a fun game, but could be the single WORST written rule book I've ever had to use. The entire game seems completely ambiguous and open to interpretation.
By the rules, you would keep the dog and play normally with the handicap of being able to carry less gear. However, with the dog's auto food scavenging ability you are garenteed to get at least 1 food while scavenging and are thus better equipped to feed one of the starting extra survivors placed into the bunker.

thematically it makes perfect sense for a lone survivor to have a dog companion, where they act together against the zombies.

House ruling you can obviously discard or draw again, as it's your house rulings, though if you are playing that way you should make sure it's known before you play that that rule is in effect.

While I'll admit the printed rulebooks organization isn't the best, I'm a little hurt you think it's the single worst you've ever seen, as their are some beyond terrible rulebooks out there, and zpoc's while hard to read sometimes isn't as bad as most people make it out to be.

Here a link to a v2.5 pdf that is organized a little better.

http://greenbriergames.com/gbg/index.php/games/zpocalypse/zp...

Observationally, while Princess may not be the powerhouse that other survivors have, most games I've seen people are usually ecstatic to have him in their squad, if for the very least for them to have reason to place him on their squad base stand. What he lacks in ability he makes up for in theme.

Eventually I really want to explore having princess be a scout character, who would allow a second miniature on the board for moving independently of the main squad who controls him. Though it would require placing a d6 on his card to keep track of hp independently..still toying with the details though.
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Stuart Gairns
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Don't take it personally Zee & thank you for the link to the updated rulebook. Much appreciated.

"WORST rulebook ever" is maybe a bit harsh - the rule book certainly is 'one of the worst' - I think alot of the problems I've had have been where a certain card drawn alters the rules in some way - and you then have to figure out how you are expected to apply these 'rule changes' whilst still 'sticking to the rules'.

When-ever a rules question has come up - it's been a 10 minute search of the rule book - only to not find the rule in question, or for the rule to be so ambiguously worded (or done by example, rather than a clear explanation of what the rules actually are, and the example doesn't fit with the current rules question) that they can be interpreted 2, 3 or 4 different ways - and it's never clear which interpretation to use.

And a pretty cut and dry wording of "does not count as a Survivor in your Squad" on the princess card doesn't help with the ambiguity. I assume the "doesn't count as a survivor" ability is only during the fortify phase? - and if so, then why doesn't it say that on the card?!
Or can you have a 5 man squad with Princess (ok 4 man + 1 dog)?
 
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Per Holmström
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macnme wrote:
This is a fun game, but could be the single WORST written rule book I've ever had to use. The entire game seems completely ambiguous and open to interpretation.
I can tell that you have not read the rules for Zombicide.
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zee Parks
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macnme wrote:

And a pretty cut and dry wording of "does not count as a Survivor in your Squad" on the princess card doesn't help with the ambiguity. I assume the "doesn't count as a survivor" ability is only during the fortify phase? - and if so, then why doesn't it say that on the card?!
Or can you have a 5 man squad with Princess (ok 4 man + 1 dog)?
Princess does not count towards your 4 survivor squad limit.
So you can have 4 human survivors and princess in your squad if you have him. As stated above if you get princess as your starting survivor, their is nothing preventing you from having him out the gate. Only if you want to house rule not having him as a starting survivor. Granted you are somewhat gimped card carrying wise, but otherwise should be able to regain that loss in a day or 2, especially with princess's auto food get ability.
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Derek VDG
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I don't know. If Princess doesn't count as a Survivor, that should also apply to the start of the game. If you draw the Princess survivor card, then he doesn't count as a survivor. You start (generally) with 2 survivors, and so would ignore Princess and draw again ... because Princess does not count as a survivor. It seems to me that the *house rule* would actually be to count Princess as a starting survivor, not the other way around.
 
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zee Parks
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dvang wrote:
I don't know. If Princess doesn't count as a Survivor,
Princess IS a Survivor, he just doesn't count towards your squad limit of 4 survivors.

His card doesn't state that he should be ignored during the start of the game, and besides the carrying capacity, is just as good as any other survivor as the start(mainly int he ability to automatically ensure food is found so you can get MORE survivors).
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Jonas Vanschooren
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So should you also keep the dog as your starting survivor in the scenario (dont remember the name) where you begin with only 1 survivor, if you then get a bad scavenge this would mean you start the game with only the dog in your squad, sounds strange.
 
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