John Smith
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Los Angeles
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So...what happens if during a game you exhaust the ordinary and epic hero decks and no one has 5 wounds or 10 souls?

Also...this has happened a few times to us...has this been happening to anyone else???
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Jim Hansen
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The game is set up such that there are 14 souls/wounds per player. So, unless there are a lot of souls/wounds getting discarded, it would be impossible for this to arise. I see in the strategy guide that there is one spell card (soul harvest) that removes heroes from the game. Are there other effects that remove heroes that I am missing?
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John Smith
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Well consider our scenario:

3 players: 16 reg. heroes + 12 epic. (Total = 40 wound/soul points)
*All epic heroes count at 2 wound or 2 souls, right?

Player one (lost due to losing the an epic hero after getting 4 wounds making the wounds 6 total): 8 souls, 6 wound (2 reg. hero, 2 epic hero in last turn)= 14
Player two : 7 souls, 4 wound = 11
Player three : 7 souls, 4 wound = 11
In the town : 2 epic heroes = 4
Total = 40 points

Now, if the heroes in the town arent lured to either player 2 or three, and the hero deck is exausted...

I understand this will only occur in really tight situations like this, but we did happen to have this happen. Also would be good to know what would happen if the two in town WERE lured, 1 to each, and both players managed to kill the epic heros....

If player two and player three both lured 1 each of the epic heroes in the town, they would each have 9 souls, and 4 wound. There really arent any heros left (as player 1's heros are "removed from the game" as per the Pro Tip in the rules...what happens then?

I'm assuming we would just start shuffling the 4-player epic hero cards and start using those (in BOTH the above questioned cases)...but i wanted to know if there was an official ruling somewhere. Also, I havent played a 4-player game yet, but if a scenario like this can occur in a 3-player, then why not a 4player, and if so, what to do then?
 
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David Gregg
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menchirox wrote:
3 players: 16 reg. heroes + 12 epic. (Total = 40 wound/soul points)
3 players = 17 regular + 12 epic = 41 total souls/wounds

Agreed however that that is not enough. Even with no players being knocked out, if each were at the edge of both winning and losing (9 souls + 4 wounds) you'd use up 39 total right there, not counting what's in town.

The numbers are a little better with 4 players at 57 total and 52 used at the limit.

Perhaps just mix in a couple more heroes when playing with less than 4?
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John Smith
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Even if the rules do state 17 regular heroes, you can just have the player who lost take that extra hero ...(see bolded below):

3 players: 17 reg. heroes + 12 epic. (Total = 40 wound/soul points)
*All epic heroes count at 2 wound or 2 souls, right?

Player one (lost due to losing the an epic hero after getting 4 wounds making the wounds 6 total): 9 souls, 6 wound (2 reg. hero, 2 epic hero in last turn for the wounds)= 15
Player two : 7 souls, 4 wound = 11
Player three : 7 souls, 4 wound = 11
In the town : 2 epic heroes = 4
Total = 41 points


**The suggestion to simply use more heroes is what we thought to do...but it would be nice to have a ruling on this. Just thought I might have found something nice to consider.
 
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Carlos "Koey"
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If I am not mistaken, the game would end in this case and the person with the most souls win. When there is tied with number of souls, the Boss with the least experience Wins. Since lower experience usually mean their turn happens later in the game.

Haven't read the rules in a while so not sure.

Do note I do like the fact they added a rule for breaking ties
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Jim Hansen
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I've always wondered if the 3 player setup was a typo.

2P: 12 Regular (6/player) + 8 Epic (4/player)
3P: 16 Regular (5.3/player) + 12 Epic (4/player)
4P: 24 Regular (6/player) + 16 Epic (4/player)

Makes me think there should be 18 regulars in 3 player.
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John Smith
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Teamjimby wrote:
I've always wondered if the 3 player setup was a typo.

2P: 12 Regular (6/player) + 8 Epic (4/player)
3P: 16 Regular (5.3/player) + 12 Epic (4/player)
4P: 24 Regular (6/player) + 16 Epic (4/player)

Makes me think there should be 18 regulars in 3 player.
Thanks for this! The quick replies help a lot. And yes, i'll just play w/ 18 on the 3-player for now, to help get rid of the chances of bringing up this situation again.
 
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John Smith
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Koey wrote:
If I am not mistaken, the game would end in this case and the person with the most souls win. When there is tied with number of souls, the Boss with the least experience Wins. Since lower experience usually mean their turn happens later in the game.

Haven't read the rules in a while so not sure.

Do note I do like the fact they added a rule for breaking ties
From the rules it states that a player loses if they end a turn with 5 or more wounds, wins if they end with 10 or more souls and fewer than 5 wounds.

*If all remaining players meet the victory or loss conditions above, subtract each player's wounds total from his souls total. The player with the higher result wins. In case of a tie, lowest XP wins.

In our case above, neither players meet the victory conditions, so this is why we posed the question. Thanks for the response though. I too am glad they allocated for a tie-breaker clause.
 
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Carlos "Koey"
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menchirox wrote:
Koey wrote:
If I am not mistaken, the game would end in this case and the person with the most souls win. When there is tied with number of souls, the Boss with the least experience Wins. Since lower experience usually mean their turn happens later in the game.

Haven't read the rules in a while so not sure.

Do note I do like the fact they added a rule for breaking ties
From the rules it states that a player loses if they end a turn with 5 or more wounds, wins if they end with 10 or more souls and fewer than 5 wounds.

*If all remaining players meet the victory or loss conditions above, subtract each player's wounds total from his souls total. The player with the higher result wins. In case of a tie, lowest XP wins.

In our case above, neither players meet the victory conditions, so this is why we posed the question. Thanks for the response though. I too am glad they allocated for a tie-breaker clause.
I think you found one of those situations not covered by the rules. I do think if the Town runs out of Heroes the Boss with the most Souls, then Fewest Wounds then Lowest HP should win.

I mean its better to start a new game and have everyone participate than to have someone sit out while you spend time sorting out Epic Heroes and setting up for a sudden death game.

Also do note if you have the promo epic heroes mixing those in every game will definitely solve the not enough Soul problem

Regardless the retail copy suffering this issue would require a judgement from BWG.
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Johnny ONeal
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menchirox wrote:
Koey wrote:
If I am not mistaken, the game would end in this case and the person with the most souls win. When there is tied with number of souls, the Boss with the least experience Wins. Since lower experience usually mean their turn happens later in the game.

Haven't read the rules in a while so not sure.

Do note I do like the fact they added a rule for breaking ties
From the rules it states that a player loses if they end a turn with 5 or more wounds, wins if they end with 10 or more souls and fewer than 5 wounds.

*If all remaining players meet the victory or loss conditions above, subtract each player's wounds total from his souls total. The player with the higher result wins. In case of a tie, lowest XP wins.

In our case above, neither players meet the victory conditions, so this is why we posed the question. Thanks for the response though. I too am glad they allocated for a tie-breaker clause.
If a turn ends and all Hero cards have been claimed or removed from the game, the tiebreaker rules apply.

This is currently the most important piece of errata we've identified for the final rulebook. Please let us know if you have any further questions, and we hope you're enjoying the game!
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Chris L
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We almost ran into this today - in the last turn we could not fully populate the town - and it got me thinking.... Why not just always shuffle in all the Epic Heroes in every game? That way it should be almost impossible for this to occur?
 
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Sam Oppenheim
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What if the room deck runs out. If the players have heroes stuck in town it is static and unless you shuffle the discard pile, the heroes will not go to any players dungeon. (Since he distribution of symbols for bait is static)
 
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