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Lords of Waterdeep: Scoundrels of Skullport» Forums » General

Subject: Irusyl scoring bonus rss

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Gar Per
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While I might normally refrain from evaluating the strength of a game power/benefit/rule/etc without ever having played the game (or expansion in this case), but does 6 pts for a single quest type of your choice not seem a bit over-powered?

1) You really can't be dealt an unlucky starting hand.
2) You can avoid quest types in demand by other players.
3) Any plot quest that becomes available early can be useful to you, and paired with your quest type of choice.
4) You can match your bonus type to the quests that seem available.

Typically I find with the existing Lord cards that I almost always have pretty much exclusively one quest type. Either there is less competition for that type, or I grab an early plot quest for it, they just came up a lot, or the adventurers needed go nicely with the buildings, etc. Most of the time I'll have at most one of the second type, mainly because you get occasional few cubes from quest rewards and intrigue cards that fit the quest type. Having all the above benefits, plus 6 points per quest feels like a bit much.
 
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Marty McFly
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nate_lockhart wrote:
While I might normally refrain from evaluating the strength of a game power/benefit/rule/etc without ever having played the game (or expansion in this case), but does 6 pts for a single quest type of your choice not seem a bit over-powered?
I thought that too, but I keep going back an forth. You'd probably need to choose your quest type based on your starting quests, which makes it more random than other Lords. What I mean by that is that you have a better chance at possibly picking a type that only one or zero other players are going for, but you could also pick a type that two other players are going for...and you don't have a back-up type to offset the fact that your chosen type might be in high demand.

Also, with only one type to choose, you run a greater risk that your type won't be at the Inn. You can always choose the Inn spot that clears it, but then you aren't getting the other benefits, so you're losing something there by taking the chance that your type will be in the next four cards.

I predict that this will be a Lord that either wins big or struggles, and that will change from game to game.
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Jon Digman
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And, if you have to announce which quest type at the beginning of the game, the other players get a slight bit more knowledge.
 
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Vernon Evenhuis
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jondigman wrote:
And, if you have to announce which quest type at the beginning of the game, the other players get a slight bit more knowledge.
The text on the card doesn't say anything about having to announce your choice of quest at the beginning of the game, on the contrary, it says the player makes this choice at the end of the game.
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Michelle
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Yeah, this is the first thing I noticed when I saw the new lords. It does indeed seem overpowered. Possibly even more overpowered than the building lady, since it's easier to deny a player the builder's hall than to deny them quests. And it's more obvious that someone has Larissa than it will be with this Lord.

I mean, like you said, probably best to suspend judgment for now...but I'm definitely a bit skeptical.
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Gar Per
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martidem wrote:

I thought that too, but I keep going back an forth. You'd probably need to choose your quest type based on your starting quests, which makes it more random than other Lords. What I mean by that is that you have a better chance at possibly picking a type that only one or zero other players are going for, but you could also pick a type that two other players are going for...and you don't have a back-up type to offset the fact that your chosen type might be in high demand.
Yeah, it is hard to say on this one. On one hand, you are guaranteed at least one start quest that matches your bonus. On the other, like you said, if you pick wrong, you will be hurting. Then again, since there is so little downside to cube-hoarding, you can wait it out some and try to deduce what others are after. You're right about going back and forth on this for certain.

martidem wrote:

Also, with only one type to choose, you run a greater risk that your type won't be at the Inn. You can always choose the Inn spot that clears it, but then you aren't getting the other benefits, so you're losing something there by taking the chance that your type will be in the next four cards.

I predict that this will be a Lord that either wins big or struggles, and that will change from game to game.
I don't see the quest wiping option as a waste of the other benefits. The way I look at it, if there are 4 quests out there I don't want, there are probably 3 or 4 other people DO want. Wiping the quests is like performing a mini-attack on their plans. I don't get get a benefit, but I'm likely hurting my opponents, which I call just as good.

I suspect that your thoughts about the swingy nature of this Lord are correct.
 
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Galen Ciscell
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When I played this Lord I came in a reasonably close second (with 5 players). I neither ran away with the game nor got crushed. I wouldn't say it is swingy.

You really need to "choose" (in your mind) and commit to your quest type early in the game and stick to it. If you change your mind halfway through the game, you won't end up with that many points. So it should be relatively obvious to anyone paying attention what you are collecting. You're also basically restricted to taking every quest of the type you choose in order to maximize your score. In exchange, you get 6 points per quest instead of 4.

It seemed perfectly balanced to me against the other Lords when I played it.
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Gar Per
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gciscell wrote:
When I played this Lord I came in a reasonably close second (with 5 players). I neither ran away with the game nor got crushed. I wouldn't say it is swingy.

You really need to "choose" (in your mind) and commit to your quest type early in the game and stick to it. If you change your mind halfway through the game, you won't end up with that many points. So it should be relatively obvious to anyone paying attention what you are collecting. You're also basically restricted to taking every quest of the type you choose in order to maximize your score. In exchange, you get 6 points per quest instead of 4.

It seemed perfectly balanced to me against the other Lords when I played it.
Well, I don't want to overlook the fact that you are the only one to comment so far that has actually played the expansion with this lord. But one play doesn't tell me The Lord isn't overpowered or swingy just as one flip of a coin wouldn't tell me a coin always come up heads. Still, your report is encouraging, even if I can't see the "how" of it. I often artificially restrict myself to one quest type due to having a plot quest and have found it to be no problem to get enough quests when I want them, so this Lord's restriction doesn't bother me - especially given the fact that I get to pick the quest type I am going to go after. I've also rarely seen people move to block someone from getting a quest type - it is simply more productive to get the things you need so you gain on all your opponents rather than focus in on harming one of them.

In the end, you've played the game and I haven't, so I've got to give some weight to what you have said. But the issue I can't get past is that there is no convincing reason why this Lord isn't overpowered. My experiences with the base game tell me that the downside of this Lord is rarely a factor for other Lords who are restricted to choosing from 2 quest types right from the start instead of choosing any quest type.
 
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M. B. Downey
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nate_lockhart wrote:
Typically I find with the existing Lord cards that I almost always have pretty much exclusively one quest type. Either there is less competition for that type, or I grab an early plot quest for it, they just came up a lot, or the adventurers needed go nicely with the buildings, etc. Most of the time I'll have at most one of the second type, mainly because you get occasional few cubes from quest rewards and intrigue cards that fit the quest type. Having all the above benefits, plus 6 points per quest feels like a bit much.
How often do you win, and by how much? How many players are in your typical games?
 
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Gar Per
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downeymb wrote:
nate_lockhart wrote:
Typically I find with the existing Lord cards that I almost always have pretty much exclusively one quest type. Either there is less competition for that type, or I grab an early plot quest for it, they just came up a lot, or the adventurers needed go nicely with the buildings, etc. Most of the time I'll have at most one of the second type, mainly because you get occasional few cubes from quest rewards and intrigue cards that fit the quest type. Having all the above benefits, plus 6 points per quest feels like a bit much.
How often do you win, and by how much? How many players are in your typical games?
I'll admit that I've only played the game probably 7 times, but I've also only lost once - and that was when a player wiped the quests with his last action hoping to find a quest that fit his random assortment of leftover cubes and he did. I can't say by how much I usually win, I simply don't keep track of such things. I would say typically we play with 4, though I have played with 5. Never 2 or 3.

I realize some people are likely thinking "well, if you are restricting yourself to one quest type normally, then you aren't taking advantage of all opportunities". But I can tell you that the down-selection to one quest type has always happened quite naturally without me passing on opportunities. Like I said - one of the two always seems more available so I just keep grabbing them up.
 
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M. B. Downey
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7 is not a large sample size. Did you play with mostly the same group? Do you usually win your games with that group?

Also, you may not be taking into account what changes the rest of the expansion elements will have on matters. With more quests, it may be more difficult to focus on your set, or other quests may be more attractive.

Personally, I'm waiting until I actually play the game several times before I decide if something is overpowered or not.
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Gar Per
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downeymb wrote:
7 is not a large sample size. Did you play with mostly the same group? Do you usually win your games with that group?

Also, you may not be taking into account what changes the rest of the expansion elements will have on matters. With more quests, it may be more difficult to focus on your set, or other quests may be more attractive.

Personally, I'm waiting until I actually play the game several times before I decide if something is overpowered or not.
I've tried to be clear that I haven't decided it is overpowered yet, apparently unsuccessfully. I just think it may be, and was hoping people could point out some things I am missing, because I acknowledge I don't know how all the factors of the expansion will play out together. Your point about the quest dilution and additional quest types is a good one and was something I hadn't thought of - that was the sort of point I was looking for.

Please don't lump me in a broad gamer category of "pre-judges game as broken without playing it." I'm simply asking.
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Chris Ruf
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It isn't overpowered. The only time I can see it being overpowered is in situations where everyone else was dealt lords that conflicted with each other, leaving you open on a certain quest type. Even then, when your quest type dominates Cliffwatch, other players should be wiping it to get to their quests.

There absolutely had to be a bump to 6 points per quest for this lord because you are not always going to be getting only one type of quest. I think its a common to focus too hard on only your lord's quest types. Several other quests out of faction can make up the loss of 4 points. However, with the new lord you now lose out on 6 points for taking on off faction quest, and focusing on a single quest type severely limits your in game options.

Lets say you have a standard lord and complete 12 in faction quests. You need to complete 8 quests of a single type with the new lord to get the same return. It's not always that easy to complete that many of one type. And if you do, you probably missed out on better value from other quests.
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Jason Sallay
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Advantages to two quest lords over 1 quest lord:
- you can dabble in plot quests from 2 types of quests
- If your primary quest type is not coming up in the Inn, you can still grab your secondary.

Honestly given a choice I would choose the Score 3 on EVERY quest guy over the Score 6 on ONE quest guy any day of the week.

With the score 3 quest guy I would keep working on little quests and lots of them, and every plot quest I can lay my hands on.

Just my thoughts...
 
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