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Ancient Terrible Things» Forums » General

Subject: Why so expensive rss

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Thomas
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$45 seems a little steep for what you get. As much as I would like to see the game get made, why should I back the project now when I will most likely be able to get it for a lot cheaper down the line.
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Nicholas Vitek
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I'd recommend searching through BGG (google/ site:boardgamegeek.com kickstarter cheaper ) or something of the sort to see the hundreds of similar questions related to backing now or online ordering later.

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Thomas
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Nich wrote:
I'd recommend searching through BGG (google/ site:boardgamegeek.com kickstarter cheaper ) or something of the sort to see the hundreds of similar questions related to backing now or online ordering later.



I'd rather hear from those who are backing the project in hopes they can convince me otherwise.
 
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Doug Bass
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LunarSoundDesign wrote:
$45 seems a little steep for what you get. As much as I would like to see the game get made, why should I back the project now when I will most likely be able to get it for a lot cheaper down the line.

I am not sure whether you will be able to get it cheaper or not - it is a Game Salute title and I didn't think they discounted their games?

Also, I am guessing it will be a relatively small print run. I didn't think it was all that unreasonable. I'm looking forward to it, too.
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Thomas
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Well when you compare it to Alien Frontiers and all that you get with that game for $50 it doesn't add up.
 
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Doug Bass
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LunarSoundDesign wrote:
Well when you compare it to Alien Frontiers and all that you get with that game for $50 it doesn't add up.

One main reason might be that Alien Frontiers is probably a (much) larger print run.
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Thomas
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dougbass68 wrote:
LunarSoundDesign wrote:
Well when you compare it to Alien Frontiers and all that you get with that game for $50 it doesn't add up.

One main reason might be that Alien Frontiers is probably a (much) larger print run.


Doesn't seem so since its always sold out everywhere and they had to have 2 or 3 kickstarters to print more.
 
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Doug Bass
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LunarSoundDesign wrote:
dougbass68 wrote:
LunarSoundDesign wrote:
Well when you compare it to Alien Frontiers and all that you get with that game for $50 it doesn't add up.

One main reason might be that Alien Frontiers is probably a (much) larger print run.


Doesn't seem so since its always sold out everywhere and they had to have 2 or 3 kickstarters to print more.

The most recent AF campaign sold over 2,200 copies, which probably means their print run was at least 4 or 5K? I wonder whether ATT would even print more than 2 or 3K copies unless their Kickstarter really picks up. Also, by this time, the AF artwork is all paid for; the ATT artwork isn't (and it has more cards than AF).

EDIT: All just speculation (obviously)
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Sea
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Live outside of South Africa, US, EU or Canada, and the price gets even more outrageous. I'm quite interested in the game, but $80 for the game is just too much yuk
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Salvador Bernadó
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LunarSoundDesign wrote:
$45 seems a little steep for what you get. As much as I would like to see the game get made, why should I back the project now when I will most likely be able to get it for a lot cheaper down the line.


I can't say anything to make you pledge, but I'm sure you won't get it cheaper ever if it doesn't get funded.
I know this has been repeated ad nauseum but kickstarter is not an online shop, is a place to put money for the project you believe on.
You don't have to pay $45 if you think the game is too expensive for that price. But you can pledge $1 or whatever you feel is right and help the game to be released so you can find it cheaper someday.
I hope the game gets funded and the stretch goals we'll receive will make you think twice about the worth of the game, so you can pledge before the finish date is over.
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Thomas
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Bernado wrote:
LunarSoundDesign wrote:
$45 seems a little steep for what you get. As much as I would like to see the game get made, why should I back the project now when I will most likely be able to get it for a lot cheaper down the line.


I can't say anything to make you pledge, but I'm sure you won't get it cheaper ever if it doesn't get funded.
I know this has been repeated ad nauseum but kickstarter is not an online shop, is a place to put money for the project you believe on.
You don't have to pay $45 if you think the game is too expensive for that price. But you can pledge $1 or whatever you feel is right and help the game to be released so you can find it cheaper someday.
I hope the game gets funded and the stretch goals we'll receive will make you think twice about the worth of the game, so you can pledge before the finish date is over.


That's another thing, the stretch goals are not very impressive, perhaps if they were I would reconsider.
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Robert Nava
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Considering that the price includes shipping, has wonderful graphics, and will provide countless hours of family fun and bonding, $45 seems fair.
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Thomas
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trader_sam wrote:
Considering that the price includes shipping, has wonderful graphics, and will provide countless hours of family fun and bonding, $45 seems fair.


Not when compared to other games on the market. If it had custom dice then perhaps.
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Val Teixeira
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LunarSoundDesign wrote:
trader_sam wrote:
Considering that the price includes shipping, has wonderful graphics, and will provide countless hours of family fun and bonding, $45 seems fair.


Not when compared to other games on the market. If it had custom dice then perhaps.


Component wise, yes, you can find games on the market that is going to give you more bang for your buck, like AF that you mentioned before.

What games are you comparing the cost of ATT to?

The factors:
Number of components.
Quality of components.
Size of print run (including previous print runs).

Alien Frontiers, as mentioned, has had many different print runs. Even though each individual print run wasn't particularly large (though still larger than ATT will likely be), they've covered some costs, such as art, in previous print runs.

The other factor, which to me is the more important factor, is how much are you going to play this? The components are less important than how often I get to play the game (and how different each play experience is). This game certainly seems to offer more ways of playing it than Alien Frontiers (which does not differ much from game to game) and provides a richer experience. Each time I play a game, the more bang for my buck it gives me (as opposed to getting that bang from more components).

As a consumer, I think the lure of components is a bad way to value a game, even though it's one of the most common ways to value it (especially since it's how producers decide the value of a game).

Since it's Game Salute, it is unlikely to be much cheaper later (although not impossible). It is also likely that you may not even be able to get this game easily later (because of a small print run). So, if you see yourself playing a game like this a whole lot, then get it. If not (and you see it only being played once or twice), give it a pass and support another game that interests you more.

You're right in that there are cheaper games that offer more components. I personally don't care how many components they add to Candyland or Monopoly though, even if they are much, much cheaper than the games I buy. If I'm not going to play them nearly as much, then it's a waste of my money, and that money would be better off spent elsewhere.
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Thomas
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Elder sign is half as much and you at least get custom dice. I'm still considering it an will just take my chances getting it cheaper later.
 
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Steve Mott
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There's no question that the game is pricey for what you get in terms of production and components. Look through your game collection and consider the individual prices you paid for what you got—I can't think of a single game I own over $45+ that doesn't have higher production value. Bottom line, Ancient Terrible Things is an expensive game.

That being said, I agree that this appears to be a small run. Most Kickstarter projects are overpriced in terms of component value due to development costs, shipping, etc. being factored in. Would the game sell more copies if they dropped the price $15? Absolutely. The current price is prohibitive and I'm sure Pleasant Company Games knows that. However, PCG knows their business model and what they can afford to do.

Personally, I'd like to see the game get produced because I want to play it! If this is the price PCG needs it at in order for that to happen, I guess I have to decide if the game is fun enough to overlook the price. I think it is, though we all know many will think it is not.
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It's sad that Kickstarter has become a pre-order, what-can-you-give-me-for-my-money, system, rather than seeing it as giving people a chance to get their ideas/inventions/dreams out into the world, with a bonus to backers.

(myself included)
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Steve Mott
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twelve2 wrote:
It's sad that Kickstarter has become a pre-order, what-can-you-give-me-for-my-money, system, rather than seeing it as giving people a chance to get their ideas/inventions/dreams out into the world, with a bonus to backers.

(myself included)

The thing is, resources are scarce in this world. A company proposing a game on Kickstarter is competing with excellent games that already exist in the real world. Most gamers do not have an "idea" budget alongside their "gaming" budget. A business person trying to sell an idea on Kickstarter must convince a gamer to sacrifice a game from the game shop in order to invest in the business person's idea instead. These are called opportunity costs, and they're heavy considerations for every gamer I know.

If I had all the money in the world, I'd love to support someone's idea or dream just for charity's sake. Unfortunately, the Kickstarter Tabletop category is not a charity. These are companies trying to introduce goods to the world. If you were to go propose an idea to an investment group in person, you would expect them to examine the market and compare what you're offering with what's already available. It's no different here.

This is why I'm not outraged when I read gamers' comments about KS prices. It's to be expected! These gamers are often low-to-middle-salary moms and dads, just like the designers introduce themselves as, and we're all making money decisions every day. People shop at Wal-Mart despite how much it hurts a ma and pa store because that little store isn't competitive in terms of prices. It's nothing personal.

Anyway, fortunately for PCG, they were compelling enough for me to back despite their higher price. I wonder if there would be a way for a few gaming designers to team up and present a single, unified Kickstarter campaign as a joint venture. Maybe that would alleviate shipping costs, lower per-game prices for backers, and help them to survive in this highly-competitive marketplace.
 
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Thomas
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twelve2 wrote:
It's sad that Kickstarter has become a pre-order, what-can-you-give-me-for-my-money, system, rather than seeing it as giving people a chance to get their ideas/inventions/dreams out into the world, with a bonus to backers.

(myself included)


Actuall the point of kickstarter is to get the game funded and stretch goals should be used for rewards. I don't feel entitled but would like to see custom dice as a reward and that is a benefit everyone would enjoy.
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Dee Wongsa
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$45 is a pretty common price point for a medium weight game, especially factoring in shipping. Sure you get more stuff with Alien Frontiers but it's $5 more. Do you get $5 more worth of stuff? You get more wooden tokens and dice but fewer cardboard tokens and cards. I don't think ATT is overpriced.
 
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Thomas
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dejadee wrote:
$45 is a pretty common price point for a medium weight game, especially factoring in shipping. Sure you get more stuff with Alien Frontiers but it's $5 more. Do you get $5 more worth of stuff? You get more wooden tokens and dice but fewer cardboard tokens and cards. I don't think ATT is overpriced.


Are you kidding, with the last AF kickstarter you got a ton of promo cards, upgraded components and a new game board.
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Dee Wongsa
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I was comparing to the first Alien Frontiers Kickstarter. It doesn't make sense to compare a later edition of AF to the first edition of ATT.
 
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Steve Mott
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With all of the competition that has hit KS since Alien Frontiers' initial foray, it's no surprise that gamers are expecting more. Many of the backer profiles reveal that they have spent considerable sums on KS projects over the last year or two. Gone are the days when a single company or two were the only ones with projects in the tabletop category. That, coupled with the excellent games that have been produced outside of KS over the last few years, places an additional burden on KS project authors to provide excellent value for potential backers.
 
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Thomas
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dejadee wrote:
I was comparing to the first Alien Frontiers Kickstarter. It doesn't make sense to compare a later edition of AF to the first edition of ATT.


It's actually more relevant since the kickstarter just closed a month ago and this one is going now. They need to offer more incentives for ATT or it won't get much support. There is a lot of competition going in with kickstarter right now it it comes down to bang for buck.
 
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Jon Dennis
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LunarSoundDesign wrote:
They need to offer more incentives for ATT or it won't get much support. There is a lot of competition going in with kickstarter right now it it comes down to bang for buck.


This man speaks no lies.

I pulled my pledge down to $1 and expressed concerns I had about spelling. I heard back quickly and was satisfied with great communication from the designers, so I re-upped to 45. Being able to bounce ideas off the creators and have communication with a good community (hey, like this one!) is a good incentive for me.

However, if I wasn't about to come into a few hundred bucks from selling a 40K army, I would wait until retail.
 
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