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Subject: Kickstarter Storage Solution - Market Research rss

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Barney M
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I have been designing a custom built complete storage solution now that all the expansions are out with the intent of getting it up on Kickstarter.

Really! What an Original idea!!!

I know, I know. Everyone and their mother thinks their solution is the best but I'm no different so there.

However I keep running into the problem of proper pricing vs. manufacturing cost. So far there have been five Kickstarter solutions for Dominion. Two got funded, three did not IMHO largely due to price.

The design I am thinking of would use an aluminum style case like the one from Harbor Freight but custom sized to be a little bigger. The durability target is somewhere between good camera gear cases and Zero Halliburton briefcases.

The interior lining, row dividers, and trays would be wood (probably bamboo). Card dividers would be the same material as typical store gift cards so they would be durable and high color and the content would be ripped-off from inspired by Tasajara's excellent divider sheets. The tray would be designed to hold everything from a basic game to the biggest game possible and would facilitate rapid setup and take down. There will also be an unofficial promo card or two as tuppence for low dollar backers.

Everything would be sourced from overseas manufacturing (i.e. China). It's the only way this level of customization would stay reasonably priced.

So in my best Ron Popeil voice, now how much would you pay? Seriously. How much would you pony up for backing the following configurations.

1. Promo Card
2. Modular Tray Set
3. Plastic Dividers
4. Storage Case with wood lining and row dividers
5. Case & Tray Set & Promo Card
6. Base Package (Case, Tray Set, Plastic Dividers, & Promo Card)
7. Bling Package: Base Package with metal laser etched logo on case exterior.
8. Fresh Start Package: Bling Package loaded with all 10 card sets in premium sleeves.
9. Ridiculous Package: Fresh Start Package delivered to your house in US/Canada by Donald X. including two hours (minimum) of gaming.
10. Export Package: Ridiculous package for residents of Asia / Europe / South America (higher cost due to extra travel / translator / security).

Obviously option 9 and 10 are a stretch and would require some cooperation from the MAN himself, but I am curious as to what people would cough up for that.

I anxiously await your flames responses.

LINKS:

Successful Kickstarters:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1423575262/dominion-stor...
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sjbrown/boardcrafting-do...

Failed Kickstarters:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/valta/the-unofficial-dom...
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1286842883/the-keep-any-...
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1286842883/the-keep-syst...

Biggest Dominion Game Possible:
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/990626/maximum-piles-maximum...

Storage solution using Harbor Freight aluminum box:
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/773794/dominion-case-with-ca...

Tasajara's Dividers:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/filepage/91799/tasajaras-domini...
(Matt - if you see this - I will be in touch if this moves forward - you will not be left empty-handed.)
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Al Washburn
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Personally I don't think it can be done...for me to buy a solution (and I'm looking, waiting on the official ones) I'd probably top out around a $100 and for that it would have to have absolutely everything I'm looking for.

At that price point I doubt it can be done...Here are some example things important to me (and perhaps no one else):
- Solution supports sleeved cards
- Solution should support at least 2 sets of money/victory cards (though a modular approach to money/victory cards would be best)
- I want the cards to lay horizontally not vertically
- I don't want inserts for the different kingdom cards I want sleeves that you can pull out for the kingdom decks. So you pull it out by the name tag and the entire kingdom deck comes out something like this:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/475028/banyan
- Cards that are intrinsically tied together should live in the same pullable folder/sleeve together (Urchin/Merc, Hermit/Madman, Tournament/Prize and any others I'm forgetting)
- Cards that are are linked to other cards but are linked to more than one should have their own separate folder/sleeve (Spoils, Ruins)
- I want to be able to have starting decks already set up ahead of time, this means spots for 14 starter decks:
8 Standard Beginning Decks (enough for 2 full tables)
6 Dark Ages Beginning Decks (with the special starter Estates)
- Modular in a way so it still looks good if you don't have all the expansions (For Example I don't have, and have no plans to get, Alchemy but I have everything else)

The exception:
by far the best (well, at least most attractive) storage solution I've seen is this:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/12654647#12654647
it's very modular (though not as portable as some), I'd probably consider paying $20 per expansion for something like this (and it would cost a LOT more than that to make) if it supported sleeves.

Personally I think the best solution would hold each expansion separately (and possibly money separate from base and intrigue kingdom cards) but can snap together or be combined somehow for storage and transport.

Again, I don't know how you'd deliver that for my price point.

To cover your specific questions I'll try address them:
1. Promo Card - Does this mean a unique promo card sold for purchasing the solution? I guess $5 like the promos sold in the BGG store.
2. Modular Tray Set - What does this mean?
3. Plastic Dividers - I don't want dividers I want sleeves
4. Storage Case with wood lining and row dividers I would not pay a premium for wood lining/dividers especially if the outside is an aluminum case or backpack material. I think it'd look strange.
5. Case & Tray Set & Promo Card I don't see a likely scenario where I wouldn't want dividers, and I would want those dividers to be sleeves.
6. Base Package (Case, Tray Set, Plastic Dividers, & Promo Card) like I mentioned, only $100 and only if it's exactly what I'm looking for. Sorry.
7. Bling Package: Base Package with metal laser etched logo on case exterior. If the case looked really attractive I might pay $15 or $20 for branding if it looked fantastic.

Not interested in the rest...

EDITED: for clarity
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Sterling Babcock
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Rather then a heavy hard case, I would recommend something made out of backpack like material, rip stop nylon, with a plastic try insert. I think it would be lighter and more durable.

At one point I was using a laptop case which fit cards horizontally. Though it is more compact if they fit vertically.
 
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Al Washburn
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Solamar wrote:
Rather then a heavy hard case, I would recommend something made out of backpack like material, rip stop nylon, with a plastic try insert. I think it would be lighter and more durable.

At one point I was using a laptop case which fit cards horizontally. Though it is more compact if they fit vertically.
Something I forgot to mention, while the Harbor Freight Boxes do look amazing I would also agree that I think a backpack approach would be attractive, probably lighter and more manageable, though I'm not convinced more durable...I could see cards getting kinked/bent more easily.

Perhaps 2 stacks of cards and have them Horizontal would be the most compact? *shrug*
 
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Whitney Barnes

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My 2 cents.

Personally, I don't want a mega box. Too big, too heavy. I bring Dominion places, but I'd like to take just half of it. I want basically the boxes they come in, but more compact. (The one that was linked to above, made by Adam Gibbs, is beautiful) And then another box for "extras"; coins, token, mats, basic treasure and victory cards. Smaller boxes that fit one expansion will also not have to be so super strong, so that might cut down their weight more.

Or, what would be cheaper, but still pretty useful; nice, sturdy dividers that fit in ordinary card long boxes.

They would be flexible for sleeved and unsleeved cards. People can make their own long boxes, or just use cardboard ones. Sure, the cardboard ones get worn out, but the dividers would be in good shape, you just transfer.

Because really, I don't think I'd drop a lot of money on whole boxes unless they were exactly what I wanted. But $30-50 on nice looking, sturdy dividers? That is likely to be worth the money.

And, once you get a nice looking divider, you've got a product you can sell to Legendary players.

 
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Vincent Perry
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My travel version is just a card box I throw what I want into.
 
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Sterling Babcock
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ayedub wrote:
Solamar wrote:
Rather then a heavy hard case, I would recommend something made out of backpack like material, rip stop nylon, with a plastic try insert. I think it would be lighter and more durable.

At one point I was using a laptop case which fit cards horizontally. Though it is more compact if they fit vertically.
Something I forgot to mention, while the Harbor Freight Boxes do look amazing I would also agree that I think a backpack approach would be attractive, probably lighter and more manageable, though I'm not convinced more durable...I could see cards getting kinked/bent more easily.

Perhaps 2 stacks of cards and have them Horizontal would be the most compact? *shrug*
Mine was a 17" laptop case, which I created a custom wooden insert to, for 4 rows of horizontal cards.
 
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Ben Wand
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Cool idea.

Here's what I want:

I want the Thunderstone setup. An insert with dividers and some foam to fill in the gaps. That way I can toss my old insert and replace it with the new insert and dividers.

Benefits:
I can combine as many boxes as I want, or keep them, my choice.
This solution will likely be a lot less cost to make and design.

I would pay $25 without hesitating. My max would be probably
$40, and at that price I would probably only buy one.

This solution would mean I wouldn't have to print and cut out my own tabbed dividers. Something to think about.

Good luck.

Maybe my game marketing blog can be of some help as you plan this?

http://gameofmarketing.blogspot.com/
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Beth
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BarneyM wrote:
I keep running into the problem of proper pricing vs. manufacturing cost. So far there have been five Kickstarter solutions for Dominion. Two got funded,
Hi Barney, I am one of the two you noted that's in the middle of funding. I found the BGG community very helpful in my endeavor and am happy to help and offer advice. Because everyone does have a different idea of what works best, I encourage other solutions to come out.

Pricing is very difficult. I made a choice to keep everything domestic, and as such, it was impossible to get the price down to what many were hoping for. I'm curious to see what you will find going overseas.

Also, don't underestimate the fees and shipping. On Kickstarter, shipping is included, and many don't realize the extent of fees involved (kickstarter, payment processing and licensing). This adds up to more than you may think. Don't let that discourage you from contacting RGG about licensing; you definitely should.

Best of luck. Feel free to PM me if you have questions.
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One solution I saw was someone had a large binder, and just kept all the cards in there. Each page has 9 pockets, and each pocket was large enough for about 10 to 20 cards


I only bought base game Dom, but my ideal storage solution for Thunderstone (have promos and all exps in including up to Dragonspire/exp #3) would be to leave them in the 2 "slim" boxes. If possible, I'd grab large pockets/sleeves that can also store the cards horizontally, similar to the image below, but the only ones I've seen to date were the non-rigid, plastic ones.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/475028/banyan
 
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Greg Spence
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I was pretty surprised to see the kickstarter today for the Hobby Lobby box with laser cut dividers. I've been working on the exact same solution to sell for the same box since I have other laser-cut organizer products. I wasn't planning on doing a kickstarter, but just create the divider kit and sell it to people who want to buy their own box. I can't believe the number of people that have backed this project with $250 dollars or more.

My price point for the dividers was going to be somewhere around $30 and you buy your own box from Hobby Lobby.

Crazy what some people will spend!
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Al Washburn
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gspence wrote:
I was pretty surprised to see the kickstarter today for the Hobby Lobby box with laser cut dividers. I've been working on the exact same solution to sell for the same box since I have other laser-cut organizer products. I wasn't planning on doing a kickstarter, but just create the divider kit and sell it to people who want to buy their own box. I can't believe the number of people that have backed this project with $250 dollars or more.

My price point for the dividers was going to be somewhere around $30 and you buy your own box from Hobby Lobby.

Crazy what some people will spend!
This.

One important thing to add to the storage solution discussion: Don't gouge us...while you will make some money as evidence by that Kickstarter, many of us will realize what's what and not like it. You'll maximize your money by being more reasonable with your prices. Earlier I said my top is $100, and that's true, but it had better seem worth that money on top of being what I'm looking for.
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omnicrondelicious
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ayedub wrote:
One important thing to add to the storage solution discussion: Don't gouge us...while you will make some money as evidence by that Kickstarter, many of us will realize what's what and not like it.
I don't want to hijack BarneyM's thread with further discussion of my wife's Kickstarter, but I have to chime in here.

Please don't publicly and falsely suggest that my wife is gouging people. I find that deeply offensive.

My wife has broken down her design and production process in great detail here and outlined the cost factors here.

Other people on BGG with fabrication experience have corroborated (here) that these costs are reasonable (and here), if you understand what goes into small-scale production.

I can assure you that after fees, shipping, materials, and machining the net hourly rate for the labor is rather unimpressive.

I completely understand any sticker shock you may have. I also fully support you if you believe my wife's solution is too expensive or otherwise not worth your hard-earned money. But I am deeply upset at the suggestion that my wife is "gouging" anyone.
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Ben Wand
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omnicrondelicious wrote:
ayedub wrote:
One important thing to add to the storage solution discussion: Don't gouge us...while you will make some money as evidence by that Kickstarter, many of us will realize what's what and not like it.
I don't want to hijack BarneyM's thread with further discussion of my wife's Kickstarter, but I have to chime in here.

Please don't publicly and falsely suggest that my wife is gouging people. I find that deeply offensive.

My wife has broken down her design and production process in great detail here and outlined the cost factors here.

Other people on BGG with fabrication experience have corroborated (here) that these costs are reasonable (and here), if you understand what goes into small-scale production.

I can assure you that after fees, shipping, materials, and machining the net hourly rate for the labor is rather unimpressive.

I completely understand any sticker shock you may have. I also fully support you if you believe my wife's solution is too expensive or otherwise not worth your hard-earned money. But I am deeply upset at the suggestion that my wife is "gouging" anyone.
I don't know anything about this scenario. I always find accusations of "gouging" hilarious.

If you want to buy something, buy it.

If you think it's too expensive, then DON'T.

Saying something is gouging is just sour grapes.
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Greg Spence
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Just to clarify, I don't think your wife is gouging anyone as I know how much time it takes to produce this stuff. I'm not making much money on my box organizers. I sell the King of Tokyo organizer for $16 shipped! The Eclipse organizer that uses 4 sq.ft. of material sells for only $26 shipped and all these pieces are hand sanded. I was just really surprised at the number of people willing to spend $250 for a storage solution. My solution is geared more towards people on a budget that are willing to do some of the work themselves, like print their own dividers, etc.

I guess part of it depends on how she is getting her laser work done. If she's outsourcing it, it will cost a lot more.

Greg


omnicrondelicious wrote:
ayedub wrote:
One important thing to add to the storage solution discussion: Don't gouge us...while you will make some money as evidence by that Kickstarter, many of us will realize what's what and not like it.
I don't want to hijack BarneyM's thread with further discussion of my wife's Kickstarter, but I have to chime in here.

Please don't publicly and falsely suggest that my wife is gouging people. I find that deeply offensive.

My wife has broken down her design and production process in great detail here and outlined the cost factors here.

Other people on BGG with fabrication experience have corroborated (here) that these costs are reasonable (and here), if you understand what goes into small-scale production.

I can assure you that after fees, shipping, materials, and machining the net hourly rate for the labor is rather unimpressive.

I completely understand any sticker shock you may have. I also fully support you if you believe my wife's solution is too expensive or otherwise not worth your hard-earned money. But I am deeply upset at the suggestion that my wife is "gouging" anyone.
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Barney M
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omnicrondelicious wrote:
ayedub wrote:
One important thing to add to the storage solution discussion: Don't gouge us...while you will make some money as evidence by that Kickstarter, many of us will realize what's what and not like it.
I don't want to hijack BarneyM's thread with further discussion of my wife's Kickstarter, but I have to chime in here.

Please don't publicly and falsely suggest that my wife is gouging people. I find that deeply offensive.

My wife has broken down her design and production process in great detail here and outlined the cost factors here.

Other people on BGG with fabrication experience have corroborated (here) that these costs are reasonable (and here), if you understand what goes into small-scale production.

I can assure you that after fees, shipping, materials, and machining the net hourly rate for the labor is rather unimpressive.

I completely understand any sticker shock you may have. I also fully support you if you believe my wife's solution is too expensive or otherwise not worth your hard-earned money. But I am deeply upset at the suggestion that my wife is "gouging" anyone.
At the risk of taking a stand - I will quote Thumper:

If you can't say something nice... don't say nothing at all.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0034492/quotes?item=qt0455230


You can call it overpriced or ridiculous or even exorbitant. You can simply say that it is more than you are willing to pay. These thoughts express your opinion of the price.

But when you call it gouging, you are expressing your opinion of the person behind the price, and that's just mean and at odds with the our sense of community.

Beth clearly stated that she choose to use domestic sources, a respectful business decision but one which automatically puts her price at 3-500% times what our Target/Home Depot/Wal-Mart existence has grown to expect for pricing.

Don't like the price, vote with your wallet. Her project is currently 234% funded so obviously she has done something right.
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