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Subject: So Judwan never score 2/4pt strikes? rss

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Neomaxim Noefaith
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Just a quick question. In reading the Judwan rules for "Long Arms", am I reading this correctly as they never score bonus points for longer range strikes from the bonus-point hex?

Doesn't this largely render "Long Arms" useless outside of the passing game?
 
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Jonah Rees
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Newtruthneomaxim wrote:
Just a quick question. In reading the Judwan rules for "Long Arms", am I reading this correctly as they never score bonus points for longer range strikes from the bonus-point hex?

Doesn't this largely render "Long Arms" useless outside of the passing game?
That is correct. Not being able to throw bonus point strikes is part of the long arms rule but it also means that you don't lose the dice for throwing from the bonus hex because it's only 4 hexes to the strike zone which can be helpful sometimes.
 
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Jeff Brewer
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I think this is something the design team should reconsider.

Given the Judwan have no effective way to attack the opposition, I think they should have the same chance to score bonus points as any other team for the following reasons:

. You can only have double the number of starting positions in your team, so a Judwan team can have a maximum of 12 Judwan players (but they can still add MVPs and extra players as normal);

. Thus any player who knows what he is doing will be trying to remove as many players from the Judwan team as possible;

. This means the Judwan team will lose players faster than any other team, with less replacements to come on to the field;

. By removing the chance to score bonus points, Judwan need to score more often than their opponents to win, which means they need to play for longer, which means their is a greater chance for attrition;

. To get a landslide win, the Judwan currently need to score at least three times to get 7+ points, whereas if they were able to get the bonus points, they would only need to score at least twice (which is also something their opponents can already do);

. If a Judwan player dies, he is expensive to replace (more than other teams, except perhaps Robots).

Sorry, this turned into a bit of a rant. I like the Judwan, and they are my favourite team out of the eight we have in the first two seasons.

Cheers,
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Andrew Wodzianski
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Newtruthneomaxim wrote:
Just a quick question. In reading the Judwan rules for "Long Arms", am I reading this correctly as they never score bonus points for longer range strikes from the bonus-point hex?

Doesn't this largely render "Long Arms" useless outside of the passing game?
Also consider that during league play - Judwan will die. I recommend the 'cheating death on the cheap' table in Post Match. For 4mc, you roll a d6; 1 - sorry you're dead / 6 - full recovery / 2-5 some sort of lingering handicap. Normally, a handicap would be tragic. For the Judwan, losing 'Long Arms' or losing 'Pacifist' is actually a benefit.

There's no doubt about it - the Judwan are a tricky team to play well. IMO, totally worth the investment!
 
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Jonah Rees
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Nestyr wrote:
I think this is something the design team should reconsider.

Given the Judwan have no effective way to attack the opposition, I think they should have the same chance to score bonus points as any other team for the following reasons:

. You can only have double the number of starting positions in your team, so a Judwan team can have a maximum of 12 Judwan players (but they can still add MVPs and extra players as normal);

. Thus any player who knows what he is doing will be trying to remove as many players from the Judwan team as possible;

. This means the Judwan team will lose players faster than any other team, with less replacements to come on to the field;

. By removing the chance to score bonus points, Judwan need to score more often than their opponents to win, which means they need to play for longer, which means their is a greater chance for attrition;

. To get a landslide win, the Judwan currently need to score at least three times to get 7+ points, whereas if they were able to get the bonus points, they would only need to score at least twice (which is also something their opponents can already do);

. If a Judwan player dies, he is expensive to replace (more than other teams, except perhaps Robots).

Sorry, this turned into a bit of a rant. I like the Judwan, and they are my favourite team out of the eight we have in the first two seasons.

Cheers,
Judwan would be far too overpowered if they were able to score bonus point strikes. They can't slam but misdirect is incredibly powerful for them because of being speed 3+ and the fact that they can reposition themselves as well if they double it meaning they can move the opponent and put themselves in a position to catch a throw. And killing Judwan really isn't that easy. Even if your opponent puts two threat hexes on one and then Slams they've likely used three actions to do so and with speed three and two dice you're still going to get at least one if not more dodges. Whilst they might double you they'd have to get very good rolls to injure you for 4+ turns and if they are using all those actions to hit a single player they are not scoring themselves which means you can concentrate on getting the landslide quickly. This means that Judwan do not lose players that much quicker than everybody else although they are expensive to replace. However, the fact that you can only have 12 is not a hindrance in the slightest. Most teams don't bother buying many, if any, extra players because it's better to save your money for revival. Whilst you might want a couple for Judwan and Robots who only start with 6 you will never want as many as 12.
 
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Matthew McFarland
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Not sure the Judwan need any buffs. You're talking about a single bonus point, when they can already score and pick up scattered balls fairly easily. Assuming the opposing team will be able to harm them significantly may not be completely true, either; letting the Judwan score the bonus points against a Veer-myn team sounds awful, for example.

Judwan are just a higher skill team that needs to be played to their strengths and positioned well. Between Passing and Feinting you should be able to score every Rush, so it hardly seems fair to let them potentially end the game in two Rushes.
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Bobby Warren
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I agree with Andrew. Using the "cheating death on the cheap" table can be more of a benefit for you than many of the other teams, so you shouldn't lose players as fast as others. Plus your guys could be more useful if they lose a skill.
 
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Neomaxim Noefaith
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drewcula wrote:
Newtruthneomaxim wrote:
Just a quick question. In reading the Judwan rules for "Long Arms", am I reading this correctly as they never score bonus points for longer range strikes from the bonus-point hex?

Doesn't this largely render "Long Arms" useless outside of the passing game?
Also consider that during league play - Judwan will die. I recommend the 'cheating death on the cheap' table in Post Match. For 4mc, you roll a d6; 1 - sorry you're dead / 6 - full recovery / 2-5 some sort of lingering handicap. Normally, a handicap would be tragic. For the Judwan, losing 'Long Arms' or losing 'Pacifist' is actually a benefit.

There's no doubt about it - the Judwan are a tricky team to play well. IMO, totally worth the investment!
How is losing Pacifist a benefit? They're all Strikers... they aren't going to Slam anyway. :-p
 
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Scott Hill
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Newtruthneomaxim wrote:
drewcula wrote:
Newtruthneomaxim wrote:
Just a quick question. In reading the Judwan rules for "Long Arms", am I reading this correctly as they never score bonus points for longer range strikes from the bonus-point hex?

Doesn't this largely render "Long Arms" useless outside of the passing game?
Also consider that during league play - Judwan will die. I recommend the 'cheating death on the cheap' table in Post Match. For 4mc, you roll a d6; 1 - sorry you're dead / 6 - full recovery / 2-5 some sort of lingering handicap. Normally, a handicap would be tragic. For the Judwan, losing 'Long Arms' or losing 'Pacifist' is actually a benefit.

There's no doubt about it - the Judwan are a tricky team to play well. IMO, totally worth the investment!
How is losing Pacifist a benefit? They're all Strikers... they aren't going to Slam anyway. :-p
There are other ways to injure/kill opponent players...

(well, there's, I believe, one other way)
 
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Bobby Warren
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Scorpion0x17 wrote:
There are other ways to injure/kill opponent players...

(well, there's, I believe, one other way)
Ball to the balls! gulp
 
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Neomaxim Noefaith
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You know... all this time i've been playing, and I never knew this.

Is it a Season 2 rule, or am I blind, and have missed it all this time in the core rules?

I thought throwing at an opponent just forced a scatter.
 
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Scott Hill
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Season 1 Rulebook, Page 39:

Quote:
Throwing the Ball at Opposing Players

Sometimes, a desperate situation calls for desperate measures, and this is one of them. Throwing the ball at an opponent is not a foul, but it will end your Rush, so it’s not to be tried lightly. Still, there are times when using the ball as a weapon is the only sane thing to do.
The Throw is worked out as above. If the target player has the thrower in his front arc then he may try to Dodge the incoming ball. If the target cannot Dodge then he counts as rolling zero successes.

Dodge: a 3 dice Speed test (X)
* +1 if the player is a Striker.
* -1 per opposing player threatening the hex you are in (ignoring the Throwing player, maximum of -2).

Throw wins: the losing player is pushed into one of the 3 hexes directly away from the winner (see the diagram on page 35). The winning player chooses which one. The losing player is turned to face directly at the hex he just vacated. Scatter the ball from the target’s original hex. The Rush ends.

Throw doubles opponent: the losing player is pushed back as above, plus they are knocked down and must make an Armour check. The target number for the Armour check is equal to the difference in total successes between the winning Throw and the losing player’s roll. Scatter the ball from the target’s original hex. The Rush ends.

Draw or Dodge wins: the ball hits the target, but it’s only a glancing blow and the player is unhurt. Scatter the ball from the target’s hex. The Rush ends.

Dodge doubles opponent: the dodging player may move 1 hex in any direction. They may choose to face any direction. Scatter the ball from the original target hex. The Rush ends.
(emphasis mine)
 
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Neomaxim Noefaith
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Thanks Scott... I'm terribly embarrassed for having missed it. I'll admit, I learned to play from Dreadball Academy videos, and a friend's demo game, only flipping through the rules to learn about leagues and skills. Now I feel like a goon for missing a tactical option that could've helped me many a time against my wife's BRUTAL Marauder team.
 
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Jonah Rees
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Throwing the ball at an opponent isn't something you want to do that much because it ends your rush. The main aim of DB is to score and to score as quickly as possible to get a LS which is why Judwan are so good. But throwing the ball at the back of opposition players means they can't dodge so you should easily knock them down and even if you're forced to throw in their front arc FF and Orx are terrible at dodging so are going to eat ball! But this isn't an option with Judwan unless you lose Pacifist.
 
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Neomaxim Noefaith
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jonahmaul wrote:
Throwing the ball at an opponent isn't something you want to do that much because it ends your rush. The main aim of DB is to score and to score as quickly as possible to get a LS which is why Judwan are so good. But throwing the ball at the back of opposition players means they can't dodge so you should easily knock them down and even if you're forced to throw in their front arc FF and Orx are terrible at dodging so are going to eat ball! But this isn't an option with Judwan unless you lose Pacifist.
Oh I understand, but just imagine the greedy-sparkle in my eyes at the prospect of taking out one of my wife's absolutely murderous Orx Guards?

I NEED to make that happen at least once.
 
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Jonah Rees
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Newtruthneomaxim wrote:
jonahmaul wrote:
Throwing the ball at an opponent isn't something you want to do that much because it ends your rush. The main aim of DB is to score and to score as quickly as possible to get a LS which is why Judwan are so good. But throwing the ball at the back of opposition players means they can't dodge so you should easily knock them down and even if you're forced to throw in their front arc FF and Orx are terrible at dodging so are going to eat ball! But this isn't an option with Judwan unless you lose Pacifist.
Oh I understand, but just imagine the greedy-sparkle in my eyes at the prospect of taking out one of my wife's absolutely murderous Orx Guards?

I NEED to make that happen at least once.
Oh yeah, it's definitely worth doing occasionally. If you can put your strikers on the launch line so that you score then catch the ball when it launches at the beginning of her rush and get a double which lets you throw it at one of those Orx it'll be priceless!
 
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Michael Off The Shelf Board Game Reviews
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I would suggest playing the Judwan a few times before you house rule any changes.

Judwan can:
Throw further than any other team. 12 maximum hexes plus all their throw ranges are 1 hex greater which means they rarely miss unless the dice really hate you. Don't underestimate the power of misdirection and some proper player placement a player caught flat footed will be decimated by a good Judwan team.

Judwan are going to be a team that makes surprise, rapid, plays.. in other words they are going to be winning land slide 7 point games... or getting smashed into the ground.
 
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