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Thanks.. Finally some information flow.
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pazio PACG Preview wrote:
Damage in the PACG removes cards from your hand, so those who succumb to Black Fang's acid breath might find themselves ill-prepared for the fight to come.
So, when you take damage you need to discard cards from your hand. I can't recall, have they mentioned how health is tracked? Based on this snippet, it appears as if it might be reminiscent of Gears of War: The Board Game, where your hand of cards also represents your health.
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D6Frog wrote:
Looks killer.

And like Castle ravenloft, I like the card layouts which BGGers bitched about. They are simple and easy to read unlike the overly-busy garbage that FFG puts out. Also, these layouts match the Pathfinder rulebooks etc.
I am warming to the layouts (but was never cold - just wanted to see what they finally looked like/operated). Based on the example in the article feels like they have struck the right balance between narrative, and the detailed info you need. Looking good.
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D6Frog wrote:
Looks killer.

And like Castle ravenloft, I like the card layouts which BGGers bitched about. They are simple and easy to read unlike the overly-busy garbage that FFG puts out. Also, these layouts match the Pathfinder rulebooks etc.
I'm one of the bitchers. I look at the quality of cards some indie game designers are producing (like this: https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/projects/67583/posts/520413/ima...)

...and I have to wonder how Paizo ends up with this:
http://paizo.com/image/content/Blog/Skeleton.jpg

If I had to sum up my opinion of the quality of Paizo's card design in a single word, I would say 'half-assed'.

Hopefully gameplay makes up for it.
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Baerenkeks wrote:
Thanks, Frank. It appears to be a little clearer to me now.

pazio blog by Roque Eidolon Jul 9, 2012 wrote:
At the end of the turn, you draw back up to your hand size, which means if you have a slender deck and you use a lot of recharge cards, you can get them back pretty quickly. But there's two dangers you have to worry about! If you ever need to draw and have no more cards in the deck, you die completely, losing everything you've gained throughout your travels so far. If you end the turn with more than your hand size worth of cards (one simple way is to explore, find a boon, and succeed on the check), you must discard the remaining cards, which can be painful.
Your cards do seem to be your life, but it appears as if your deck (and more specifically, your draw pile) represents your health in the game.
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I see W McG's point, the other card is much more "wow". I assume the sterile background behind the skeleton is not to affix it to any one environment. For example, my current location is a jungle yet the background image of the skeleton card is a dungeon. While it may be a cool background, it sort of removes you from the "experience". I'm going to assume this was the reason. While I fully intend to pick this up as is, it could use a little pizzazz in the art department.
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Definitely looks like a prototype layout instead of a complete game, but the gameplay sounds intriguing. And the D&D games had pretty rubbish cards but interesting gameplay. Also McG's example card - whilst prettier * - can't even fit the '10' inside the card boundary... whistle

Either way I'm already thinking of upping my preorder to the first two expansion decks.



* okay, better...
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eracer68 wrote:
I see W McG's point, the other card is much more "wow". I assume the sterile background behind the skeleton is not to affix it to any one environment. For example, my current location is a jungle yet the background image of the skeleton card is a dungeon. While it may be a cool background, it sort of removes you from the "experience". I'm going to assume this was the reason. While I fully intend to pick this up as is, it could use a little pizzazz in the art department.
Actually, I have no problem with the art. I'm talking layout and card design here. It's wretched. I typed up a short list of things I find wrong with the style and the inconsistencies on the card, but I deleted it since I don't want to come across as a troll and hater. I'm interested in the game and I think it sounds fun. It's just an eyesore to look at.

Having said that, I'm preordered for everything you can preorder at this point.

D6Frog wrote:
Curious what is that game he linked anyway?
The game I linked to was Dragon's Horde:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1657065264/dragons-hoard...

...but I only did that because it's the most recent card I've seen. You could use just about any other card game as a comparison too as just about any card on a professional game looks better than these.


ninjadorg wrote:
Also McG's example card - whilst prettier * - can't even fit the '10' inside the card boundary... whistle
It's not just about 'fitting the 10 inside the card boundary'. It's about making an aesthetically pleasing, stylistically consistent card with information that is easily accessible... and two of those three components are missing in the Paizo cards.

Besides, the apostrophe in this card bleeds into the border:
http://paizo.com/image/content/Blog/Dungeon1.jpg

... which they noticed and fixed here:
http://paizo.com/image/content/Blog/Dungeon2.jpg

...but if those are final cards, they didn't fix the first problem in the first card.

Don't even get me started on the odd white space in the description of the first card above... or how the white border on the main image doesn't match up with the border on the information immediately below it... or... ah.. nevermind.
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D6Frog wrote:
Pathfinder is literally adapting a 3.5E D&D campaign to a card-game. The Pathfinder cards have more text than any game I have ever seen.

Thus having full-bleed art will not work well at all and make it harder to read the cards.

They're "literally" adapting a PATHFINDER campaign... whistle

But I agree that they have a lot more info to fit on their cards. I think they look fine as along as the gameplay is sound...
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Not to beat an (ugly) dead horse here, but here's another example of an established publisher (like Paizo) and a aesthetically pleasing, stylistically consistent, and informative card:
https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/574/996/b49ef5719804...

https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/575/025/2631cfe8267d...


Cut to this... MONSTROSITY (for lack of a better word, no pun intended):
http://paizo.com/image/content/Blog/Skeleton.jpg

Disregard the main image artwork (which is better on the non Paizo card anyway), and look at the design and layout itself. Paizo's attempt is juvenile at best and could literally be duplicated by a 10 year old using Photoshop to place overly stroked fonts on colored squares and rounded rectangles. There's no 'design' here at all.. just text on basic geometric shapes.

I understand there is a lot of information to present. Presenting a lot of information, and presenting a lot of information in a manner that looks nice, are not mutually exclusive events.

Look at Mage Wars. Their cards have just as much, if not MORE information than Paizo has:
http://magewars.com/jsite/images/Header-cards_small.jpg

Front/Back Beastmaster:
http://www.cardgamedb.com/forums/uploads/mw/beastmaster-core...
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That skeleton is pregnant or what? It looks like... and according his face expresion just before childbirth
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Maybe Paizo didn't have a graphic designer available to work on the game and they asked the janitor to whip something up? whistle
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Mage Wars is very cluttered indeed...
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D6Frog wrote:
Mage Wars (Looks horrible, not as easy to read, not much text)
Well, to each his own, I guess. Maybe your preference is to have your descriptive text framed in copious amounts of white space:



...with the most artistic element of your card 'design' being a 50 cent stockart image of canvas for your background that appears in different places:

Sometimes your canvas background goes behind your main art:



And sometimes it goes behind your text:



Then add in some squares and rounded rectangles that aren't consistent (i.e. see the rounded rectangle behind the card type section (e.g. "Villain):





Also, you're missing the point a bit. Whether you like the Mage Wars layout or not is largely moot. It was provided as an example of cards that were actually 'designed'. Paizo's attempt at design (if you want to call it that) looks like an intern took a shit onto a stack of precut card stock, threw it in a box with a rulebook, and called it the Pathfinder Adventure Card game.

The card for Dragon's Horde (which you said you liked better than Mage Wars) is not my favorite because the art is slightly cartoonish to me. However, I can appreciate the design of the card, and call it a well designed card because it meets the previous criteria I laid out, and because someone put some thought into it.

If you don't like my examples, you can google your own, if you like.. it's easy to do:
http://www.armchairgeneral.com/wordpress/wp-content/image/20...

http://teamcovenant.com/zachbunn/files/2012/09/star-wars-lcg...


And by the way... the amount of descriptive text is rarely an issue with card design (as we're referring to it). It's functions of a card which that can be difficult to incorporate (attack, armor, special abilities, type of dice to use, etc) since those are not items that can be displayed in paragraph format. Mage Wars is a complex game, with many attributes, elements, and situations existing concurrently. The information is presented as cleanly as it can be, given the volume of it, on a designed card. Paizo has given no thought to this, and simply displayed them in spreadsheet format which is functional, but hence why I call it 'half-assed' since there certainly isn't a reason you couldn't make it look good and be functional at the same time.

The amount of text also has no bearing on the amount of design (again, as we are referring to it). In other words, they have a paragraph of text on the card you posted. Just because they have a paragraph of text, doesn't mean they can't also have header that is more than just a tan rectangle with too large font.
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The Pathfinder cards look fine. The skeleton is the only one I don't like and that's because the art of the skeleton itself looks stupid.

So glad we are finally seeing some gameplay mechanics from this too. Bring on August!
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D6Frog wrote:


But I really don't care that much. If the game is good is all that matters.
I understand this point and agree to a certain extent. I have some old games that are eye sores that keep hitting the table because they are fun.

However, in this day and age, I think presentation is a key component of a product, especially if you're working with a thematic game like this and especially for this price point. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a game to play well and look good... especially if you already have the art assets!!

Anyway, based on today's update, it looks like these cards are production, and not prototype, which certainly disappoints me. But like I said, I'll give them a go for the first round.

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I'm still a fan of the spreadsheet cards.ninja
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BDSb wrote:
I'm still a fan of the spreadsheet cards.ninja
Says the man with the "Fan of Fail" microbadge.
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I think they're going for some modern 'flat', simple kind of look. RE the whole new current fashionable trend in software UI design. Or have been inspired by that. Or subtly brainwiped into that. See Windows 8 / Metro.

Personally I agree it looks ugly and somewhat unprofessional. But then maybe that says more about me and what I am used to than the card design.

You never know, in 5 years time everyone may have jumped on the latest flat and simple fashion look, and 'cluttered' cards will look so very old fashioned and retro.

At which point I can become old and cantankerous and moan that you can't get cards these days like you used to.
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New_Sheriff wrote:
Not to beat an (ugly) dead horse here, but here's another example of an established publisher (like Paizo) and a aesthetically pleasing, stylistically consistent, and informative card:
https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/574/996/b49ef5719804...

https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/575/025/2631cfe8267d...
Aww come on man, don't just link something without telling us what that is. Those cards definitely have outstanding design.
 
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Detrimus wrote:
New_Sheriff wrote:
Not to beat an (ugly) dead horse here, but here's another example of an established publisher (like Paizo) and a aesthetically pleasing, stylistically consistent, and informative card:
https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/574/996/b49ef5719804...

https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/575/025/2631cfe8267d...
Aww come on man, don't just link something without telling us what that is. Those cards definitely have outstanding design.

Berserk
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Detrimus wrote:


Aww come on man, don't just link something without telling us what that is. Those cards definitely have outstanding design.
Ah, sorry. Made that mistake twice. As Lukas said, Berserk, which was recently on KS.
 
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