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Dungeons & Dragons: Wrath of Ashardalon Board Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: closest hero, adjacent hero rss

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zoltan molnar
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Clarification needed:

what count as closest? A hero standing orthogenically is closer than the diagonal one or they are the same? or any other hero on the tile?



Also when monster moves a tile to the closest hero which is the closest one? The one closest to the new tile's scorchmark? or the closest to the edge?

thx.

 
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Jeff Davis
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mzprox wrote:
Clarification needed:

what count as closest? A hero standing orthogenically is closer than the diagonal one or they are the same? or any other hero on the tile?



Also when monster moves a tile to the closest hero which is the closest one? The one closest to the new tile's scorchmark? or the closest to the edge?

thx.

This is how WE play it - when determining "closest", ignore tiles - simply count squares/spaces (ones you can move on/to) from the monster in question to each hero. The hero that is the fewest squares/spaces away, is the closest. Diagonal and ortho are the same.

- SK
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John Jersey
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sargonkid wrote:
mzprox wrote:
Clarification needed:

what count as closest? A hero standing orthogenically is closer than the diagonal one or they are the same? or any other hero on the tile?



Also when monster moves a tile to the closest hero which is the closest one? The one closest to the new tile's scorchmark? or the closest to the edge?

thx.

This is how WE play it - when determining "closest", ignore tiles - simply count squares/spaces (ones you can move on/to) from the monster in question to each hero. The hero that is the fewest squares/spaces away, is the closest. Diagonal and ortho are the same.

- SK
We play this way too. In a tie, the players get to choose which hero or what makes most sense in the context of the adventure (the bear is definitely going to go after the hero throwing that confounded shield at him, not the one disabling the trapped door that is no immediate threat). When it comes to the D&D dungeon crawlers, we always aim for it to make some sense within the framework of the rules, but we're old school AD&D'ers so that's likely why.
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Jeff Davis
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ZillaGod wrote:

We play this way too. In a tie, the players get to choose which hero or what makes most sense in the context of the adventure (the bear is definitely going to go after the hero throwing that confounded shield at him, not the one disabling the trapped door that is no immediate threat). When it comes to the D&D dungeon crawlers, we always aim for it to make some sense within the framework of the rules, but we're old school AD&D'ers so that's likely why.
I like your thematic thinking - we play more "woosie" like - that is, if there is a tie, we select the Hero that could handle the most damage. Not very thematic, but it is to our advantage!

- SK
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sargonkid wrote:
I like your thematic thinking - we play more "woosie" like - that is, if there is a tie, we select the Hero that could handle the most damage. Not very thematic, but it is to our advantage!
You're playing according to the rules. The rules say the first player chooses which hero will be attacked if there's a tie in distance.
 
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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The unwritten rule is "When in doubt, the active hero decides."

All you have to do is satisfy the rule at hand. The rule, pick the "closest hero". If there are two heroes equa-distant from each other, pick one, any one, and you have satisfied that rule. Which one you ask? Doesn't matter, so long as the one you picked satisfies the condition (i.e. is the 'closest').

-shnar
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Arto Hietanen
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I personally count tiles first, then squares and if both are tied, then the active hero decides. Using squares first might lead to a situation where the monster is unable to attack the closest (by squares) hero, even if there is a hero within his reach (by tiles).
 
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Jeff Davis
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Bartheus wrote:
I personally count tiles first, then squares and if both are tied, then the active hero decides. Using squares first might lead to a situation where the monster is unable to attack the closest (by squares) hero, even if there is a hero within his reach (by tiles).
In the end, it matters not what method a player uses to settle a tie, only that he does. You could use a D&D 4th Ed Dart Board, a spinning wheel, the Psychic Friends Hot line, hell, you could even use a "Crazy 8-ball".

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Arto Hietanen
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For those that count squares first, do you then allow a "one tile attack monster" to attack the closest hero if he is two tiles away? So if the monster tactic is "if within one tile of a hero, attack the closest hero" and there is a hero on the adjacent tile 5 squares away and another hero on a diagonal tile (two tiles away) 4 squares away, which hero does the monster attack?
 
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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Bartheus wrote:
For those that count squares first, do you then allow a "one tile attack monster" to attack the closest hero if he is two tiles away? So if the monster tactic is "if within one tile of a hero, attack the closest hero" and there is a hero on the adjacent tile 5 squares away and another hero on a diagonal tile (two tiles away) 4 squares away, which hero does the monster attack?
The Hero who is two tiles away but closer by squares is simply ineligible to be counted, even though he's closer by squares. In other words, the monster is not "within one tile of (that) hero", so simply exclude him from any kind of calculations as to 'closest' hero.

-shnar
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John Jersey
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sargonkid wrote:
Bartheus wrote:
I personally count tiles first, then squares and if both are tied, then the active hero decides. Using squares first might lead to a situation where the monster is unable to attack the closest (by squares) hero, even if there is a hero within his reach (by tiles).
In the end, it matters not what method a player uses to settle a tie, only that he does. You could use a D&D 4th Ed Dart Board, a spinning wheel, the Psychic Friends Hot line, hell, you could even use a "Crazy 8-ball".

I miss my mystical, magical 8-ball. It sometimes made better choices than I did...
 
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Michael Lewis
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the developers have said, if there is a tie, the active player chooses, and encouraged to choose the one that benefits the party.

Bartheus wrote:
For those that count squares first, do you then allow a "one tile attack monster" to attack the closest hero if he is two tiles away? So if the monster tactic is "if within one tile of a hero, attack the closest hero" and there is a hero on the adjacent tile 5 squares away and another hero on a diagonal tile (two tiles away) 4 squares away, which hero does the monster attack?
If it says count by tiles, then count by tiles, regardless of how many squares. So, it would target the one on the same tile. The second hero, being TWO tiles away, would not be targeted by that tactic, even if it were the closest.
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Arto Hietanen
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shnar wrote:
Bartheus wrote:
For those that count squares first, do you then allow a "one tile attack monster" to attack the closest hero if he is two tiles away? So if the monster tactic is "if within one tile of a hero, attack the closest hero" and there is a hero on the adjacent tile 5 squares away and another hero on a diagonal tile (two tiles away) 4 squares away, which hero does the monster attack?
The Hero who is two tiles away but closer by squares is simply ineligible to be counted, even though he's closer by squares. In other words, the monster is not "within one tile of (that) hero", so simply exclude him from any kind of calculations as to 'closest' hero.

-shnar
Well that is why I asked, because by the tactic it is not necessary for the hero who gets to be attacked to be within one tile. Tactic only specifies that if there is a hero within one tile, the closest hero (who might be further away in tiles if you count by squares) gets attacked.

I personally have no problem with "breaking" the one tile attack limit, if the tactics allow, as I do also allow monsters to move more than one tile when they attack (and move adjacent to) a hero who is within one tile, but positioned on the edge of the tile. So if the monster is placed behind the hero to a new tile, then the monster has actually moved two tiles (with the tactic to move adjacent to within one tile) but it is still a valid move according to tactics.

Actually counting by squares and reading the tactics literally, could be beneficial, because it can throw a curveball to a hero who likes to kite the monsters by using the corners of the tiles two tiles away of the monster. If any other hero gets within one tile of the said monster (and not too close), the hero who thought was safe gets a little surprise.
 
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In such a case 'closest Hero' really means 'closest Hero within one tile', so you start counting squares only if there are two or more Heroes within one tile.

If there is only one Hero within one tile then that is the target.

Otherwise you move on to next line of the Monster AI.
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kasca wrote:
In such a case 'closest Hero' really means 'closest Hero within one tile', so you start counting squares only if there are two or more Heroes within one tile.

If there is only one Hero within one tile then that is the target.

Otherwise you move on to next line of the Monster AI.
Yes I believe that is how most people play the tactic, and which is probably the designer's intent, but that is not what the monster would do with the tactic-as-written, if "closeness" is measured in squares. There is no stipulation in the monster tactic that the closest hero who gets attacked needs to be within one tile. It is probably assumed that it is within one tile, and of course when you count the "closeness" in tiles first, then the if clause makes it 100% sure.
 
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It's certainly true that a Hero two tiles away could be closer, counting squares. I think your last point about 'if' is the crucial one. If we read 'if' at the start of the Monster AI sentence to mean 'given that' we have:

"Given that Hero X is within a tile, attack the closest Hero X (measured in squares)."
 
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Arto Hietanen
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kasca wrote:
It's certainly true that a Hero two tiles away could be closer, counting squares. I think your last point about 'if' is the crucial one. If we read 'if' at the start of the Monster AI sentence to mean 'given that' we have:

"Given that Hero X is within a tile, attack the closest Hero X (measured in squares)."
Except that according to the tactic, there is no X or equivalent specification. If (any) hero is within one tile, attack the closest hero. But enough of this, I see your point and I agree that it is the RAI interpretation, I just disagree that it is not the RAW interpretation if "closeness" is measured in squares.
 
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Unfortunately, the rules do *not* specify what 'closeness' means. It's entirely up to you on how to interpret that.

However, in the context of the tactic, I feel it is valid to say, "If within 1 tile, attack closest hero" that means "attack closest hero within one tile". It's the same sentence, so within context, when attacking you are still attacking the closest hero that is within the measuring distance.

The game is terse to a fault, this being one of them.

-shnar
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shnar wrote:
Unfortunately, the rules do *not* specify what 'closeness' means. It's entirely up to you on how to interpret that.

However, in the context of the tactic, I feel it is valid to say, "If within 1 tile, attack closest hero" that means "attack closest hero within one tile". It's the same sentence, so within context, when attacking you are still attacking the closest hero that is within the measuring distance.

The game is terse to a fault, this being one of them.

-shnar
Interesting. We don't play it that way. We play it that the hero within 1 tile "triggered" the monster, i.e. made him aware lunch is near, but that the monster noticed the one closer as he ran towards the hero that triggered, regardless of the fact that the closest was 2 tiles away.
 
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"• If the orc smasher is within 1 tile of a Hero, it moves adjacent to the closest Hero and attacks with a heavy mace.
• Otherwise, the orc smasher moves 1 tile toward the closest Hero."

The full text tells me that this monster can move (unaided) only one tile per turn. Interpreting the first instruction as permitting a 2 tile (or 3 tile) move opposes the logic of the second instruction.
 
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Eh, I think both interpretations are valid.

-shnar
 
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shnar wrote:
Eh, I think both interpretations are valid.

-shnar
If I understand you correctly I would say both valid, but not equally valid.


 
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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For me. IMHO, this isn't the crispest of games where rules are written. So when there are vague areas like this, it's up to you on how you want to play. I prefer the former while I can see the latter being interpreted, and the rules support both.

-shnar
 
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Stan Pack
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kasca wrote:
"• If the orc smasher is within 1 tile of a Hero, it moves adjacent to the closest Hero and attacks with a heavy mace.
• Otherwise, the orc smasher moves 1 tile toward the closest Hero."

The full text tells me that this monster can move (unaided) only one tile per turn. Interpreting the first instruction as permitting a 2 tile (or 3 tile) move opposes the logic of the second instruction.


the separate tactics have no direct bearing on eachother. The RAW in this game are supposed to be taken very literally, lots of rule questions come from importing ideas that arent written there.. Closest hero by squares gets attacked. "moves adjacent to the closest hero and attacks". that's it, no caveat.

also, tiles are used to simply monster instructions. imagine a hero 1 diagonal square from a monster but 2 tiles away (they are both on a separate tile corner). thematically that hero is much closer. so both RAW and thematically, attacking the closest hero is correct - even if it's not the hero who 'triggered' the tactic
 
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