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Tzolk'in: The Mayan Calendar» Forums » Rules

Subject: Burn the forest without need? rss

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Frank Otte
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Ok, this is NO question about agriculture technologies. ;)

It's simply the following question: Assuming, you have no agricultural technology at all (to simplify the question), are you allowed to burn the forest on a jungle space, where corn is visible?

Or with other words, are you allowed to burn the forest, if you actually would not need to?

Working assumption: Yes, because the rules don't say otherwise.

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Nick Case
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If you want to suffer the wrath of the Gods and lose a temple point fill your boots. You can deliberately allow your people to starve too if you enjoy losing points that much.
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Frank Otte
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No, the latter is not allowed. The rules clearly say, that you MUST feed as much of your workers as possible. So, no starving strategy here, like for example in Stone Age.

Regarding the former, there are situations imaginable, where you want to "spare" the real corn tile for later. Apart from that, this could be part of a negotiation ("I leave you that corn, if you leave me that certain space on a certain wheel").
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Reading the rules, I don't see any reason this wouldn't be allowed. The rules merely state you can burn the forest to get to a corn tile, no other conditions. Sounds like it could be an effective move in 2 player games, probably less so in 3+ players.
 
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Nick Case
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Hermjard wrote:
No, the latter is not allowed. The rules clearly say, that you MUST feed as much of your workers as possible. So, no starving strategy here, like for example in Stone Age.

Regarding the former, there are situations imaginable, where you want to "spare" the real corn tile for later. Apart from that, this could be part of a negotiation ("I leave you that corn, if you leave me that certain space on a certain wheel").


I was more of the thought that if you are happy to drop a point on the temple track to deny someone some wood, you might consider not bothering to obtain food to deliberately starve your people. I really think its an extreme and mad idea to burn wood if you don't have to. Surely only if one wood tile is left and the other player goes next and MUST have wood can this be worthy of consideration. Too many ifs, buts and maybe's for me and like the other poster said, only in a 2 player game.
 
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Ben
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Hermjard wrote:
...there are situations imaginable, where you want to "spare" the real corn tile for later.


Not sure what you mean by this. When you burn the wood, you take the corn tile under it. So there were already at least two "real" corn tiles available, and you always take one of them in either case (assuming no technology).
 
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Kris Wiggins
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You can only advance "the wheel" by two increments one time in the game - unless you reach the top of a Temple track, in which case you're able to flip your little help card back over and do it again. I don't think I've ever actually seen this rule for myself in the book, but I've seen others on the geek reference it.

Ok, so that said, say you advanced the wheel two increments, later climb a temple track to the top, advance the wheel twice again, and now you're already on top of the temple... I could see one wanting to intentionally burn a forest just so they could go one step down on the temple only to reach the top once again so they could flip their tile back over (enabling another two increment rotation).

I of course am lucky to get half-way up when I play though. :-/

Does that make sense? Or do I have something all wrong?
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Frank Otte
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Yes, I think, that's right, I thought about cases of this kind, and the same time having too much corn to be able to beg for corn.
 
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Christopher Dearlove
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The obvious scenario you might want to do this in is where your opponent (as noted, it's always easier to justify these things two player) has the wood tile monument. So your hit from burning is less than his gain from the wood tile, which he will pick up if yu leave it.

But I never play two player, so this is firmly in the hypothetical for me. (With more players there are also more wood tiles, so denial is also harder.)
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Hmm this doesn't seem right. Burning wood action can only be done to get to the corn tile, but only if there isn't any available. Otherwise, you either take available corn tile, or take the wood tile.

When no corn tiles are available (ie covered with the wood tiles), then you can either take the wood tile, or burn the wood tile and get the corn tile (assuming you're not at the bottom place in all the temples).
 
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Christopher Dearlove
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chestnuts wrote:
Hmm this doesn't seem right. Burning wood action can only be done to get to the corn tile, but only if there isn't any available. Otherwise, you either take available corn tile, or take the wood tile.

When no corn tiles are available (ie covered with the wood tiles), then you can either take the wood tile, or burn the wood tile and get the corn tile (assuming you're not at the bottom place in all the temples).


Sure. My comment - and I think others - was about the hypothetical would you ever want to burn wood without it being necessary if you were allowed to.
 
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Mike Collins
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chestnuts wrote:
Hmm this doesn't seem right. Burning wood action can only be done to get to the corn tile, but only if there isn't any available.

Is that your opinion, or do you have an authoritative source for that?

I must admit, I can't see it being a very useful thing to do, unless you really want to block someone else from getting the last wood tile on a farm. The situation where you're top of a temple, and the most advantageous use of your turns is to move down and back up to restore your ability to do a double wheel turn, seems like an extremely rare outlier situation to me.
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Andrew Garttmeyer
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krakrs wrote:
You can only advance "the wheel" by two increments one time in the game - unless you reach the top of a Temple track, in which case you're able to flip your little help card back over and do it again. I don't think I've ever actually seen this rule for myself in the book, but I've seen others on the geek reference it.

Ok, so that said, say you advanced the wheel two increments, later climb a temple track to the top, advance the wheel twice again, and now you're already on top of the temple... I could see one wanting to intentionally burn a forest just so they could go one step down on the temple only to reach the top once again so they could flip their tile back over (enabling another two increment rotation).

I of course am lucky to get half-way up when I play though. :-/

Does that make sense? Or do I have something all wrong?


This is unanswered?
 
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Bob Smith
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I think this is unanswered at this time.

Another reason why you would want to burn the forest is if you needed the harvest token for the monument that gives VP for each harvest token. If you have the second level of food technology, but the only harvest tokens were under wood, could you choose to burn the forest to get the harvest token, even though you don't need it to get the food without a harvest token?
 
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Jay Ackerman
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You can burn the forest even if corn is showing.

Why burn the forest?
-you need the corn underneath (not in the OP's case)
-you want the corn tile underneath (again, not in the OP's case)
-you want to anger the gods, likely only from the top temple step so you can then re-ascend to reset your 2-day turn board
-you want to prevent someone else from getting the wood
-you want to prevent someone else from getting the wood tile
-you want to more quickly deplete all Palenque resources (perhaps to screw workers already on Palenque)
 
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Mike Collins
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SliceOfBread wrote:
You can burn the forest even if corn is showing.

Is that your opinion, or do you have an authoritative source for that?
 
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Jay Ackerman
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Mikey Boy wrote:
SliceOfBread wrote:
You can burn the forest even if corn is showing.

Is that your opinion, or do you have an authoritative source for that?

Am I quoting the rule? No. This is how it is implemented on BGA. I think the designers would have had it corrected by now if it was not the case.
 
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Raph Moimoi
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I asked to dizzzark : yes you can always burn the forest even if there's Corn or even if you're able to harvest without taking a Corn Tile.
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