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Subject: Is this more successful than the original? If so, why? rss

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Kirk Bauer
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I never played the original Netrunner and didn't follow it at all. Is this version more successful than the original? If so, why do we think that is?

Is it because it is LCG vs CCG? Is it because of updated graphics design or better component quality? Or did the original game suffer from more limited distribution channels?

Finally, are the cards in this version generally the same as the originals, or is everything being redesigned?
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I believe one of the reasons that the original failed was that it was the late 90s, and CCGs were dying left and right trying to cash in on Magic's popularity. Now it's being released in an environment that is more receptive to new card games. Being an LCG helps because it's not trying to catch the same players that Magic is.
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Micheal Keane
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I think the original version suffered from unrealistic expectations. It sold well but not as well as Magic so it was deemed a failure. ANR has definitely exceeded FFG's expectations I think.

LCG is definitely a big selling point, especially for us recovering MTG addicts.

The game itself is generally the same but several mechanics have been tweaked and the cards themselves are completely redesigned. The games aren't compatible at all.
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Erik Twice
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I wrote an article about the failure of the original game, so I recommend you to give it a read and give me your thoughts

http://eriktwicereviews.com/feature-the-death-of-netrunner/

kirkbauer wrote:
Finally, are the cards in this version generally the same as the originals, or is everything being redesigned?
There are many remakes of cards from the original Netrunner but there are also many new cards.
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The A:NR version has players who fondly remember a game from 15 years ago that was pretty awesome and that died a premature death.

O:NR didn't have that legion of the already converted.

From that there was enough critical mass.

The addition of factions and identities has helped a lot and given players more constraints bounding their choices, which increases re-playability and strengthens self-identity (I play NBN, I play Weyland...) with the game.
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Mychal
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kirkbauer wrote:
Is this version more successful than the original?
Yes.

kirkbauer wrote:
Is it because it is LCG vs CCG? Is it because of updated graphics design or better component quality? Or did the original game suffer from more limited distribution channels?
Yes. Yes. Yes.

kirkbauer wrote:
Finally, are the cards in this version generally the same as the originals, or is everything being redesigned?
Define 'generally'. A lot is still the same, a lot has been tweaked slightly, and a few things have been redesigned completely.
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Nate K
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I've heard that the original also rapidly degenerated into non-interactive combo decks, while the Android version has taken some good steps to keep both players engaged every game.
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Jonathan Harrison
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Much like in V:TES, there were no card limits in Netrunner. That can for sure contribute to deck degeneration.
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Brain Less
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I loved Netrunner when it came out, but it didn't stood a chance against Magic. For me, 3 reasons as to why it got rolled over by Magic :

- Netrunner games were too long (30-45 minutes vs 5-10 minutes)
- 2 players only
- Magic Hotness. Everybody just wanted to play magic.

Fast forward to today. Netrunner is gaining back in popularity (180 players at Gen Con!). Why? Everything is better. Identities, LCG, nicer design and artwork, and still the same great gameplay, only better. FFG really did an awesome job with it. But also because gaming has evolved. CCGs are no longer the hotness. Magic still do well and some others, but Miniatures, Boardgames are a lot more popular. The LCG concept is a cross-over of boardgaming and CCGs. You keep buying monthly packs, but everything is preset. Collectible is not longer part of the equation.

There was another CCG we played back then, Guardians. Awesome artwork, fun gameplay. I still have all the sets. I really got to dust it out. Maybe it could come back as an LCG or maybe just a boxed set with a couple of expansions.
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Steve Prahl
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not to derail too much...

I also loved Guardians. Although it wouldn't be the same without the original art. The art was amazing.

Dammit now I want to make Gringe Commander Chili again...
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B C Z
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HuginnGreiling wrote:
Much like in V:TES, there were no card limits in Netrunner. That can for sure contribute to deck degeneration.
1/15 was a popular enough format that lack of card limits (alone) did not make the game die.

 
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kirkbauer wrote:
Finally, are the cards in this version generally the same as the originals, or is everything being redesigned?
There are a lot of new cards; there are also a lot of reprints. Many of the reprints have been tweaked in some way.

This page has a side-by-side comparison of the old and new cards.
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David Boeren
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The original game died due to business related factors before its horrible game flaws could fully manifest.

The new game has repaired these flaws AND not made stupid business decisions.
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HuginnGreiling wrote:
Much like in V:TES, there were no card limits in Netrunner. That can for sure contribute to deck degeneration.


don't forget that in the early days Magic also had no card limits, so the fact that Netrunner had none really didn't surprise anyone.
 
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victorygamesllc wrote:
don't forget that in the early days Magic also had no card limits, so the fact that Netrunner had none really didn't surprise anyone.
It seems like the method back then was to start with no limits, and then impose them after the decks got out of control. I think that Wizards withdrew support before the game got that far.
 
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pirate_chef wrote:
victorygamesllc wrote:
don't forget that in the early days Magic also had no card limits, so the fact that Netrunner had none really didn't surprise anyone.
It seems like the method back then was to start with no limits, and then impose them after the decks got out of control. I think that Wizards withdrew support before the game got that far.
Magic was designed with card limits. The limit was "Nobody's going to spend a ton of money filling their decks with rares". It turns out this limit was unenforceable, and 4CL was stapled on later. VtES was designed without limits and succeeded - the Banned List consists entirely of cards that are broken being played even once in a game. ONR was designed without limits but rapidly devolved into degenerate decks because (for example) you could put as many Sure Gambles in your deck as you wanted, rendering Easy Mark completely pointless.
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Troy Jennings
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This is an (extreme) example of a classic Netrunner deck:

Preps (Events)
9x Bodyweight Synthetic Blood
9x Faked Hit
2x MIT West Tier
3x Total Genetic Retrofit
Hardware
6x Militech MRAM Chip
2x Nasuko Cycle
Resources
2x Junkyard BBS
3x Preying Mantis
9x Top Runners Conference

Just acquiring all these cards could be a pain, since it was a CCG with random distribution and rarity, etc. Most decks were also built like this, with many copies of only a handful of distinct cards, usually the rarest ones. This posed a huge barrier to entry.

ANR is better as a game, with much better balance and the card limits making these sort of one-trick decks (And this deck wins without going on a single run) far less feasible, which makes the game hold players better.
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Justin
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etherial wrote:
Magic was designed with card limits. The limit was "Nobody's going to spend a ton of money filling their decks with rares". It turns out this limit was unenforceable, and 4CL was stapled on later.
Decks that consisted of nothing but Islands, Flying Men, and Unstable Mutations - all common - were a problem too.
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Gregory Pettigrew
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astroglide wrote:
etherial wrote:
Magic was designed with card limits. The limit was "Nobody's going to spend a ton of money filling their decks with rares". It turns out this limit was unenforceable, and 4CL was stapled on later.
Decks that consisted of nothing but Islands, Flying Men, and Unstable Mutations - all common - were a problem too.
The all Lightning Bolt deck was also pretty nasty.
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etherial wrote:
ONR was designed without limits but rapidly devolved into degenerate decks because (for example) you could put as many Sure Gambles in your deck as you wanted, rendering Easy Mark completely pointless.
There's actually not much of a difference in brokeness between unlimited Netrunner and 1/15 Netrunner, the same decks were played and the same overpowered cards were overpowered.

It added some variety but not much. (Also people did play Easy Mark, it's not that easy!).
 
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Vuud wrote:
I loved Netrunner when it came out, but it didn't stood a chance against Magic. For me, 3 reasons as to why it got rolled over by Magic :

- Netrunner games were too long (30-45 minutes vs 5-10 minutes)
- 2 players only
- Magic Hotness. Everybody just wanted to play magic.

Fast forward to today. Netrunner is gaining back in popularity (180 players at Gen Con!). Why? Everything is better. Identities, LCG, nicer design and artwork, and still the same great gameplay, only better. FFG really did an awesome job with it. But also because gaming has evolved. CCGs are no longer the hotness. Magic still do well and some others, but Miniatures, Boardgames are a lot more popular. The LCG concept is a cross-over of boardgaming and CCGs. You keep buying monthly packs, but everything is preset. Collectible is not longer part of the equation.

There was another CCG we played back then, Guardians. Awesome artwork, fun gameplay. I still have all the sets. I really got to dust it out. Maybe it could come back as an LCG or maybe just a boxed set with a couple of expansions.
The problem with the long games still exists and also hampers its development as a tournament game in my opinion. It is not so fun to game the tournament system rather than playing the game itself to win.
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Brad Miller
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kurthl33t wrote:
I've heard that the original also rapidly degenerated into non-interactive combo decks, while the Android version has taken some good steps to keep both players engaged every game.
This.

Original got broken really quickly.
 
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Alex Rockwell
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Why is it better?

1) LCG model is way better than CCG. Not getting raped is far superior to getting raped!

2) Fixed deckbuilding mechanics. The 3 copies limit is part of this, but even comparing A:NR to original if you played original with a 3 card limit, the factions and influence system makes the new version more interesting, imo. Also, netrunner feels most fun, imo, when played at a medium power level. Its not as fun when you have no economy and just click for money constantly. Its also not as fun when both players are just doing broken and non-interactive things. (Or worse, when only one of them is). A:NR is in a pretty good middle ground state between these.

3) Improved game mechanics. The new trace/link mechanic is much superior to the old one. The new Bad Publicity mechanics is much better than the old. There are also interesting new mechanics, like ice that can be advanced, ice than does something when encountered (Tollbooth, etc). They learned from the original what things worked well and what didnt. They kept the good things and changed the bad.

4) Removal of stupid high-variance die-roll effects. Seriously, all the "roll a die, do something awesome unless you roll a 1, in which case you get screwed" stuff was really annoying. Especially because some of these effects were extremely powerful cards, like Bartmoss Memorial Icebreaker.

5) Better art/design. The new cards just look much better, imo. Some of the old art was pretty terrible.
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Andy Mills
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Alexfrog wrote:
Why is it better?

1) LCG model is way better than CCG. Not getting raped is far superior to getting raped!
Comparing the financial distribution model of a hobby to sexual assault is offensive.
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manydills wrote:
Alexfrog wrote:
Why is it better?

1) LCG model is way better than CCG. Not getting raped is far superior to getting raped!
Comparing the financial distribution model of a hobby to sexual assault is offensive.
Assuming rape has only one definition and jumping to conclusions is rather ignorant.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/rape


ANY violation or abuse
Interestingly, he also could have been referring to grapes!
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