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World of Warcraft: The Boardgame» Forums » General

Subject: Why PvP? or...is this a double solitaire game? rss

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Eric Nelson
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I've played the game a few times and I'm struck with a surprising "sameness" of each playing. I like the game, and it has some above average features, but it seems to me that there is very little strategy to it with a single optimum course of action.

I think this is best illustrated in the concept of PvP interation or more precisely, the complete lack of interaction. It's a simple cost vs reward problem and I've yet to see a time when the reward is ever worth the cost.

If there are no events out (War, Bounty, etc) the victor gets about as screwed as the defeated. Loser of a PvP is sent packing and loses an item from his bag. Any item worth worrying about is probably equipped and your character will be ready to go after spending an action or two resting. The "winner" of the fight gets the 2nd rate item for his trouble but has also wasted two actions moving and attacking. There's also a decent chance he's taken damage in the fight which means he's probably got another rest action in his near future. In terms of losing actions (the most important commodity in the game) the winner probably ends up losing more then the loser!

Even if there are events that offer a reward for PvP those rewards are usually inferior to the rewards you'd get by completing a quest...and the quests are usually less dangerous.

I've played in three 4-player games and haven't had a single PvP combat (accept for the one at the end of the game). I'm curious how often other players have seen them....
 
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Magic Pink
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Played three times, no PVP yet. It seemes really poorly implemented. I'm hoping any expansions will add ACTUAL reasons to PVP but so far there just isn't any.
 
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Luca Iennaco
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Seehawk wrote:
I'm struck with a surprising "sameness" of each playing.

Indeed, it's quite repetitive.
Nice for a play once in a while.

Seehawk wrote:
I'm curious how often other players have seen them....

Seldom.
As you've noted, it becomes quickly evident that they aren't much rewarding.

 
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Robert Washington
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Seehawk wrote:

I've played in three 4-player games and haven't had a single PvP combat (accept for the one at the end of the game). I'm curious how often other players have seen them....


I did a review based on exactly one play, which I expressly qualified as such, and your comments are depressingly close to my assessment - one way or another, it seems like choice of quest is pretty straightforward
("Here's this lone orc either of us could beat with half our dice pool...and this 4th level demon we'll need at least 2 more levels each to even think about taking on...and the demon gives 1 whole GP and 1 more item draw than the Orc...hmmm, which should we go after?")
and PvP is more a strategic consideration than an active principle - it mostly factors in via the work you put in being sure you avoid it...
 
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Justin Robben
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I know expansion that "fix" problems are not optimum...but maybe one way to spice things up could be a Quest deck that can be completed by BOTH sides...
And make them somewhat more (not overly so) enticing than the standard quests.
Thoughts?
 
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Joel Yoder
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I've played this a few times, and I do think there's some strategy to it. I don't think the choice of quests is always obvious. For example, in the last game I played, with four players, the two Horde characters chose risky but rewarding quests againts ghouls. They both died twice before completing their quests. Not that there were any easier quests available, but it was their decision to split up and try to get an early lead.

Later in the game, there were a number of quests from both sides in the middle of the board, as well as a war to be won. My partner and I decided to leave the field to the weaker Horde in order to challenge more difficult quests elsewhere. This gave the Horde a big boost, and they were soon almost the same level as we were. But because we were near Nefarian, drawing only red quests and tackling them together, we were able to fight him first and win. We lost a few turns when one of us was ready to fight and the other needed a rest, and we had to split the experience and treasure, but we were in position to strike Nefarian first if we ever thought the Horde was getting ready to do so.

This game could have gone completely differently a number of times. So I don't think it's elementary what quests you pick. We could have stuck around the center of the board, threatening the Horde with PvP to keep them away from their quests. But the game is a race, and we chose to win by running fast rather than by making our opponents run slow.

I think the sameness has more to do with the unimaginative components. None of the quests are much different than the others. 90%+ of the character powers are geared towards combat. The equipment cards are very similar to each other--finding a weapon that gives you three red dice and +1 reroll isn't very exciting when you're wearing armor that does the same, only with green dice instead of red.

So far I haven't played the game enough to get tired of it, but I think I understand why some people's interest is flagging...
 
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Gael
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Killing somoene in Pvp should make your team ahead; while the dead one (need) rest. You can do "more" quests and than gain more Xp.
It is true in theory and is often not worth the time and the reward (even the risk)
So I don't know yet! Pvp or not Pvp that is the question?

Meanwhile I DO PLAY the cooperative mode with 3 players and we have a lot of fun!
 
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Joel Yoder
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I guess I should try to actually address the original question...

No, I don't think PvP is worth it, for the reasons Seehawk originally stated. Even one on one, you use two turns to deny your opponent about the same. And it's likely you'll have to rest afterwards, so you may actually be worse off.

However, I'm sure there are exceptions:

--If you can beat your opponent without much effort, for instance if he is weak from fighting a monster. In this case you're both down two turns, but at least you get to steal an item.
--If your opponent will have to take several travel actions to get back to where he wants to be. In this case you've cost him more than two turns. This is especially useful near the end of the game when the overlord is threatened.
--If beating your opponent keeps his side from winning a war. 5 g.p. and 4 exp. for each member of a side is nothing to sneeze at, especially in a six player game.

So far in the three games I've played there's been no PvP. The threat of PvP has been a factor, though! I think as I get more experienced at the game I will be better at evaluating my chances of winning a PvP fight, and therefore better able to evaluate whether it's worth it in a particular case. Then I expect it to happen more often.devil
 
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Brian Smith
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Played it 4 times now and we got our first pvp of the game last time.

The horde hunter had left the pack and run to the hinterlands near the alliance to pick up an easy quest kill. Furthermore, he knew that we alliance all had a specific job to do that turn and wouldn't spare any time to kill him (he was already very weak).

Then the bounty card came up and his name was chosen. It was a short fight. lol, after reading this thread I realize we forgot to loot the corpse, too.


Honestly, it is the *threat* of PVP which is so important. Dying *sucks* in this game, and while you can make the argument that having to move to the person and fight him (minimum 2 actions) can be just as time-consuming, you may end up closer to your next objective, etc...
 
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Gary Bradley
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I have seen a lot of PvP in ONE game of WoW I played, and it was not a pretty sight. Basically, through no fault of their own, the Alliance got a bad start in the game: their initial quest placing was quite dispersed and there were a few blue mobs that turned up on very unlucky spaces too. This meant that the Horde spent their first few turns doing one quest per turn, moving efficiently from one quest to the other, which was on the neighbouring space. Meanwhile the alliance struggled to even reach their first two quests. The net result was 3 Horde at level 2, and 3 Alliance at level 1....even though the Alliance had not made any mistakes. The game simply "dealt" them an unfair starting point.

Sensing blood, the Horde simply headed south and tore the Alliance apart. They then "corpse-camped" the Alliance quest area, killing them over and over while all the Alliance could do was run away, since they had no chance of winning PvP when they were all level 1. Even when they fled via flight paths to unreachable areas (the only way they could escape the attrition), they had no quests to do and the Horde just hung around the Alliance starting area. They had one hope when the event came up that lets you change a quest, but new quest they drew was also positioned right beside the Horde. When that event came up again, they chose a higher quest deck, and the new quests this time was beyond their capabilities. We had to abandon that game and had to add a house of no PvP until both sides are level 2, because this game dishes up a very unfavourable starting position to one side or the other most of the time.
 
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Mike zebrowski
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In a game last weekend, the Alliance won due to a well-timed PvP battle.

Mike Z
 
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