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Subject: Why are there no ratings for how complex a game is to play? rss

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Dean Hill
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In the statistics section there is all kinds of information about the game in question. It has items like the ratings by users, overall ratings, and how many people own it plus many others.

Why is there not a section within the statistics that shows how hard the game is to play? I remember when I first came on board and started looking around at games I'd never seen before, this was the type of questions that I had. I ended up buying alot of games that had quite the learning curve. Granted alot of players have no problem with steep learning curves but I did at first.

I think for the new person to BGG it would be a better experence to know the level of difficulty a game poses before purchase. And to be able to find this information without having to dig deeply in the forums would be a plus.
 
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Brad Miller
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Re: Why are there no ratings for how complex a game is to pl
I think the "Game Weight" is an attempt to portray this information
 
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Re: Why are there no ratings for how complex a game is to pl
Game weight is the intersection of rules complexity and strategic depth. The higher the number, the deeper / more complex the game.
 
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Richard Irving
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Re: Why are there no ratings for how complex a game is to pl
sbszine wrote:
Game weight is the intersection of rules complexity and strategic depth. The higher the number, the deeper / more complex the game.


Actualkly it is not--it whatever the heck someone considers heaviness: rules complexity. strategic depth, seriousness of theme, time the game takes, weight of box, etc. Different people use different criteria--most just guess!

Even worse, it depends a lot on WHO rates the game. If the game is a wargame (or at least mostly appeals to wargamers), it will have a rating that is clearly too low. This happens because wargamers play (or at least are aware of) far more game far more complicated rules and/or difficult strategies than most German gamers.

You can get two new games--everyone says both games are complex as Puerto Rico.
- Game 1 is called the "Battles of WW2"--it rated rated mostly by wargamers who Puerto Rico is rather light game. So it gets 2 from most the raters.
- Game 2 is called "Settlers of Carcassonne"--it gets a "Germanic" base gamers giving it a weight rating of about 4. (In reality. PR is about 3.5. So a few "a wargamer ratings" are certainly in the mix.)

Remember EVERYONE said both games were as "heavy" as Puerto Rico. Yet they'll have very different average ratings.

To help the original poster, game weight is about the best you are going to find on the 'geek. But treat the rating with a grain of salt, especially if you are interested in a wargame--I'd say add 50% to a wargames weight rating, but even that is a guess.

And even then, you'll get some games with easy to learn rules, but deep strategies (or vice versa) with weight ratings you won't expect--because the people who submitted the weight ratings for that game were using a different than you are.

 
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Dean Hill
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Thanks guys, I play both War and Euro type games so the suggested addition of 50% to weight might help. It seems like they could use the same system as game ratings to compile this information, but as Richard said it's a different type of rating for different style gamers.

Thanks again,

Dean
 
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Re: Why are there no ratings for how complex a game is to pl
I think that in practice you can treat wargames and Eurogames as having two separate pools of weight ratings, and that your example is a bit of an edge case. There is going to be some overlap, e.g. with games like Friedrich and Hammer of the Scots, but for the most part you can consider a Eurogame with a high weight to be heavy for a Euro, a wargame with high weight to be heavy for a wargame, and so on. Just compare the weight with other games in the same category to get an idea.

A Bayesian average would probably help, but I think the weights will start to settle down as more gamers start playing a combination of game types. As an aside here, I don't think wargame ratings are too low on BGG, rather that Euro ratings are a bit too high if considered on the same scale as wargames.
 
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Dean Hill
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Good point Phil. Looked at in that way I think you could use the system in place and get a pretty good idea of a games complexity. To be honest until I read your responses I thought the weight scale was for shipping purposes.

Dean
 
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