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Agricola: Belgium Deck» Forums » Rules

Subject: Turn one infinite food combo? Vegetable Seller + Retirement rss

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I think I found another infinite food combo: Vegetable Seller (FL) allows you to convert 1 vegetable from supply or borrowed from general supply into 2 food. For each borrowed Vegetable not returned before scoring, receive 1 Begging card.

Followed by Retirement (PI deck) "Immediately turn all of your Occupations before you face down. At the start of each round you receive 1 Food as long as you have no face up Occupations. All effects of the face down cards are forfeited but they still count as played Occupations."

Does this work? If not, does this mean Retirement allows the benefits of future round pay food occupations? (e.g. Fence Deliveryman, Plowman)
 
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Eugene van der Pijll
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It seems to work, and I think it shouldn't.

So my suggestion would be to replace the italic text on the Vegetable Seller "(For each borrowed Vegetable, put 1 Vegetable from the general supply on a begging card as a reminer.)" with "(For each borrowed Vegetable, put 1 begging card under the Vegetable Seller as a reminder.)".
Then, if you turn over the Vegetable Seller, you can no longer return vegetables and begging cards to the general supply, but you must keep the begging cards until the end of the game.
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pijll wrote:
It seems to work, and I think it shouldn't.

So my suggestion would be to replace the italic text on the Vegetable Seller "(For each borrowed Vegetable, put 1 Vegetable from the general supply on a begging card as a reminer.)" with "(For each borrowed Vegetable, put 1 begging card under the Vegetable Seller as a reminder.)".
Then, if you turn over the Vegetable Seller, you can no longer return vegetables and begging cards to the general supply, but you must keep the begging cards until the end of the game.


The problem with this is the begging card is only a "reminder". Instead it could be something like: "For every borrowed vegetable take one begging card. A begging card gained this way can be discarded at any time by paying one vegetable."

The more I play it, the more I've found the FL/WA deck to have serious problems in relation to other expansions. They should have proofread the cards in English better and playtested it more!
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Eugene van der Pijll
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"For each borrowed Vegetable, put 1 begging card under the Vegetable Seller as a reminder."
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pijll wrote:
"For each borrowed Vegetable, put 1 begging card under the Vegetable Seller as a reminder."
Then would you need errata on Retirement and/or Vegetable Seller (?) stating that cards under cards are not turned face down?

Becomes a bit messy.
 
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Matt Shields
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archivists wrote:
I think I found another infinite food combo: Vegetable Seller (FL) allows you to convert 1 vegetable from supply or borrowed from general supply into 2 food. For each borrowed Vegetable not returned before scoring, receive 1 Begging card.

Followed by Retirement (PI deck) "Immediately turn all of your Occupations before you face down. At the start of each round you receive 1 Food as long as you have no face up Occupations. All effects of the face down cards are forfeited but they still count as played Occupations."

Does this work? If not, does this mean Retirement allows the benefits of future round pay food occupations? (e.g. Fence Deliveryman, Plowman)


Yeah, this definitely works. I believe you could replace Retirement with Snitch (Cz10) and achieve the same thing.

This is similar to using Tenant Farmer (E215) to take 3 animals, and then using snitch to turn it upside down to avoid taking the begging cards for not paying them back.

It's weird because they intentionally worded Vegetable Seller in such a way to make this work. Most of the begging card generating occs/minors (Tenant Farmer being the other exception) give you the begging cards right away and then you can discard them by paying some cost. Vegetable Seller seems to have been explicitly worded to work differently. I wonder if that was just careless editing or if there was a reason for that.

The only "solution" would be to just change Vegetable Seller. Personally though, since both of these cards are kind of marginal on their own, I'd just say that if someone gets the combo they lay down their hand and declare victory, and then start a new game.
 
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