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Subject: The case of the seven American bottle water cops who attacked the car of the sorority girl rss

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David desJardins
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desertfox2004 wrote:
Give me a fucking break - these Virginia ABC cops must be complete idiots.
I've got an idea. Maybe at 10 pm the Sun is down. Want to check that out? Going out on a limb, I bet they also have bags in Virginia stores.
 
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DaviddesJ wrote:
desertfox2004 wrote:
Give me a fucking break - these Virginia ABC cops must be complete idiots.
I've got an idea. Maybe at 10 pm the Sun is down. Want to check that out? Going out on a limb, I bet they also have bags in Virginia stores.
If they have bags, and the case was in the bag, why did the cops assume there was a case of beer in the bag? Do they have X-ray vision? Maybe they're from Krypton?
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desertfox2004 wrote:
In what way is walking out of an upper scale grocery store (Harris Teeter) with a case of water "probable cause"? Look at the water case:

External image


Give me a fucking break - these Virginia ABC cops must be complete idiots. Here's an idea - learn the difference between a case of water and a case of beer. I'd have thought that ABC agents would be well versed on all of the various brands of alcoholic beverage packages that they are trying so hard to keep out of under age hands. What it really sounds like is a bunch of SWAT wannabe goons going all "Starsky & Hutch" and "Dirty Harry" on a couple of kids. With all of the video that they have in the parking lots of stores like Harris Teeter, and the fact that the charges were dropped almost immediately, it tells me that it was blantantly obvious upon review that these ABC idiots fucked up big time.

Probable cause, my ass.
I don't know what it's like in Virginia, but when I buy LaCroix here at the upscale markets I have to shoot my way back to the car. The ABC, the local cops, DHS and now, apparently, the NSA, all of them arrive in droves and start shooting while yelling "Police! Stop! Police!!! Stop!! Or I'll shoot!!!"

My daughter and her husband borrow a neighbors MRAP when they go to Costco to stock up on LaCroix. But Things are tougher in Chicago because apparently the police are out-gunned there.

I prefer the Lemon-Lime by the way.
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desertfox2004 wrote:
If they have bags, and the case was in the bag, why did the cops assume there was a case of beer in the bag?
There's no evidence they assumed one way or the other. They probably didn't know her exact age, either, especially if she was wearing clothes. What they wanted to do was ask her some questions.
 
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Campus cops are some of the dumbest motherfuckers on earth in my experience. Bottom of the barrel. Campus "Beverage Cops" are probably what you get when you scrape the scum off the bottom of the barrel.
 
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rylfrazier wrote:
Campus cops are some of the dumbest motherfuckers on earth in my experience.
But these weren't "campus cops", any more than they were "ATF". Why do people keep bringing up irrelevant comparisons?

I know people who knew the MIT Police officer who was killed in Cambridge, that makes me perhaps a bit less sympathetic to the rants against the dumb, lazy campus cops.
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DaviddesJ wrote:
rylfrazier wrote:
Campus cops are some of the dumbest motherfuckers on earth in my experience.
But these weren't "campus cops", any more than they were "ATF". Why do people keep bringing up irrelevant comparisons?

I know people who knew the MIT Police officer who was killed in Cambridge, that makes me perhaps a bit less sympathetic to the rants against the dumb, lazy campus cops.
And I have been personally hassled by the many, many dumb campus cops often for literally no reason near UC Davis, and I had friends who were at the protest when one of them decided to "hose down" a group of protesters with pepper spray, so I generally think that these guys are petty tyrants with a low IQ.

Sure, it's still sad when one of them gets killed, it's sad when anyone gets killed, and I'm sure some of them aren't dumb jerks, it's just that ever campus cop I've ever met is a dumb jerk.

Doing a little additional research reveals that "beverage control officers" appear to be people who hang around the only places that can legally sell beer in Virgina, which are state-operated liquor stores.

This makes this a screw up of epic proportions. We have people who are standing outside of a store that sells booze whose only job it is (apparently) to protect that store who: 1. can't tell what booze looks like and 2. assume a crazy degree of force is necessary because clearly this person is under age but somehow just slipped past the Virginia state employee who just sold her beer.

The # of assumptions that this beverage cop had to get wrong to get to this point is kind of staggering.
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desertfox2004 wrote:
In what way is walking out of an upper scale grocery store (Harris Teeter) with a case of water "probable cause"? Look at the water case:

External image


Give me a fucking break - these Virginia ABC cops must be complete idiots. Here's an idea - learn the difference between a case of water and a case of beer. I'd have thought that ABC agents would be well versed on all of the various brands of alcoholic beverage packages that they are trying so hard to keep out of under age hands. What it really sounds like is a bunch of SWAT wannabe goons going all "Starsky & Hutch" and "Dirty Harry" on a couple of kids. With all of the video that they have in the parking lots of stores like Harris Teeter, and the fact that the charges were dropped almost immediately, it tells me that it was blantantly obvious upon review that these ABC idiots fucked up big time.

Probable cause, my ass.
That case looks close enough to some of the fru fru shit they sell near campuses to be mistaken. You all manly men with your beard-in-a-can beers wouldn't see 'em much.

As for the guy quoting the article: That drivel is blatantly written for maximum inflammatory effect. An officer jumped on her hood, officers pulled guns. Yes, those things happened. They happened after she was approached. However notice it leaves when she started her car and tried to drive off out of the equation? Want to guess when that happened? Want to guess why it was left out? So people would react *exactly* like you do. Are you like, new to the state of 'news' these days?
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rylfrazier wrote:
And I have been personally hassled by the many, many dumb campus cops often for literally no reason near UC Davis, and I had friends who were at the protest when one of them decided to "hose down" a group of protesters with pepper spray, so I generally think that these guys are petty tyrants with a low IQ.
I generally think that human beings deserve better than stereotyping. But that's just me.

Quote:
Doing a little additional research reveals that "beverage control officers" appear to be people who hang around the only places that can legally sell beer in Virgina, which are state-operated liquor stores.
This is pretty much all wrong. You can buy beer in grocery stores in Virginia. She was shopping at a Harris Teeter (a grocery chain).
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rylfrazier wrote:
DaviddesJ wrote:
rylfrazier wrote:
Campus cops are some of the dumbest motherfuckers on earth in my experience.
But these weren't "campus cops", any more than they were "ATF". Why do people keep bringing up irrelevant comparisons?

I know people who knew the MIT Police officer who was killed in Cambridge, that makes me perhaps a bit less sympathetic to the rants against the dumb, lazy campus cops.
And I have been personally hassled by the many, many dumb campus cops often for literally no reason near UC Davis, and I had friends who were at the protest when one of them decided to "hose down" a group of protesters with pepper spray, so I generally think that these guys are petty tyrants with a low IQ.

Sure, it's still sad when one of them gets killed, it's sad when anyone gets killed, and I'm sure some of them aren't dumb jerks, it's just that ever campus cop I've ever met is a dumb jerk.

Doing a little additional research reveals that "beverage control officers" appear to be people who hang around the only places that can legally sell beer in Virgina, which are state-operated liquor stores.

This makes this a screw up of epic proportions. We have people who are standing outside of a store that sells booze whose only job it is (apparently) to protect that store who: 1. can't tell what booze looks like and 2. assume a crazy degree of force is necessary because clearly this person is under age but somehow just slipped past the Virginia state employee who just sold her beer.

The # of assumptions that this beverage cop had to get wrong to get to this point is kind of staggering.
A quick correction for you. In Virginia you can buy beer in any grocery store that is licensed to sell alcohol, only hard liquor needs to be brought in a state run liquor store, known hear as an ABC store.

Edit David beat me to the post.
 
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enlightenedknave wrote:
rylfrazier wrote:
DaviddesJ wrote:
rylfrazier wrote:
Campus cops are some of the dumbest motherfuckers on earth in my experience.
But these weren't "campus cops", any more than they were "ATF". Why do people keep bringing up irrelevant comparisons?

I know people who knew the MIT Police officer who was killed in Cambridge, that makes me perhaps a bit less sympathetic to the rants against the dumb, lazy campus cops.
And I have been personally hassled by the many, many dumb campus cops often for literally no reason near UC Davis, and I had friends who were at the protest when one of them decided to "hose down" a group of protesters with pepper spray, so I generally think that these guys are petty tyrants with a low IQ.

Sure, it's still sad when one of them gets killed, it's sad when anyone gets killed, and I'm sure some of them aren't dumb jerks, it's just that ever campus cop I've ever met is a dumb jerk.

Doing a little additional research reveals that "beverage control officers" appear to be people who hang around the only places that can legally sell beer in Virgina, which are state-operated liquor stores.

This makes this a screw up of epic proportions. We have people who are standing outside of a store that sells booze whose only job it is (apparently) to protect that store who: 1. can't tell what booze looks like and 2. assume a crazy degree of force is necessary because clearly this person is under age but somehow just slipped past the Virginia state employee who just sold her beer.

The # of assumptions that this beverage cop had to get wrong to get to this point is kind of staggering.
A quick correction for you. In Virginia you can buy beer in any grocery store that is licensed to sell alcohol, only hard liquor needs to be brought in a state run liquor store, known hear as an ABC store.

Edit David beat me to the post.
Well, in that case it seems like this person is still kind of bad at a very specific job: knowing what beer looks like but it is a bit better than what I thought.
 
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rylfrazier wrote:
Well, in that case it seems like this person is still kind of bad at a very specific job: knowing what beer looks like
Except that there's no human being alive who can tell the difference between a 12-pack of beer cans in a grocery store bag after dark and a 12-pack of non-beer cans in a grocery store bag after dark.

Other than that, you've got a great point.
 
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Ah yes the notorious rape gangs led by women who impersonate police officers and strike in the brightly lit parking lots of upscale supermarkets. I've read about them.
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bjlillo wrote:
Why do you expect young women to be able to properly identify them as police officers rather than aggressive rapist types
I don't have an expectation one way or the other. I don't think it's a very rational fear to think that seven armed men and women who claim to be police and accost you in the parking lot of a grocery store are actually a murderous gang of "aggressive rapist types". There are a lot more cops than murderous rape gangs. But I haven't criticized her for being afraid.
 
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Shadrach wrote:
Ah yes the notorious rape gangs led by women who impersonate police officers and strike in the brightly lit parking lots of upscale supermarkets. I've read about them.
Harris Teeter is more mid-market. I doubt the rape gangs would venture to Whole Foods, that's for sure.
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bjlillo wrote:
David is working under the assumption that it's so dark in this parking lot that the gang of cops whose sole job is to identify beverages in the hands of underage persons were unable to determine that the young ladies were carrying water instead of alcohol.
"So dark" is, like, at all. Occasionally you can make out something through the typical polyethylene grocery bag in bright daylight, but definitely not at night.
 
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DaviddesJ wrote:
rylfrazier wrote:
Well, in that case it seems like this person is still kind of bad at a very specific job: knowing what beer looks like
Except that there's no human being alive who can tell the difference between a 12-pack of beer cans in a grocery store bag after dark and a 12-pack of non-beer cans in a grocery store bag after dark.

Other than that, you've got a great point.
If he had no way to tell if it was beer, he lacked reasonable suspicion to stop her, thus all of his actions were completely unlawful.

Other than that, great point.
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So let me get this straight.

No cop witnessed her buy beer? So carrying a bag with something similar in shape to a 12 pack (read any beverage for sale)mis probable cause for a search?

I almost wish he let the speak to her and refused to let them look in the bag.

I think the idea of a state emplying a special force of law enforcement to harass kids who may be buying beer is crazy. If you want to catch kids drinking then go to any campus.

If you want to catch a store selling to minors then setup a sting... This is just poor policing and 7 powerhungry adults out to scare the shit out of some college kids who may be after a beer. Maybe find one to make an example out of.

M

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malloc wrote:
I think the idea of a state emplying a special force of law enforcement to harass kids who may be buying beer is crazy.
This seems to be the predominant issue of most who are griping here. They hate the idea of the police trying to stop teen drinking, this is just one of many manifestations of that. If that's your attitude then obviously none of this is going to appeal to you.

I guess I don't know what she was carrying or how. The article says "bottled water", but how could you mistake bottles for cans? That makes even less sense.
 
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I guess there are 18 states that have these special alcohol cops.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcoholic_beverage_control_stat...

I think my state is the opposite as you can buy beer, wine, and hard liquor at almost any location including grocery stores and gas stations.

Shouldn't it be the duty of the cashier to check the ID? If the cashier messes up, then that store would lose it's liquor license and the cashier might lose his or her job.

I've never heard of such a special corps of alcohol cops. If the university student was from another state, she probably would have thought it was something fake too. Besides she was buying water. Maybe she doesn't even drink alcohol, and thus was not familiar with all the special alcohol beverage laws.

"Excuse me. We are the ABC cops. See my special badge." That sounds made up to me.

I just don't understand the need to make such a large police force for alcohol control duties. It seems laughable to me. Seven law enforcement officers for this is a joke. Too many cops made the situation much worse.

If the cops couldn't identify the beverage at night, the student might not have been able to identify the gender of the officer at night either. Besides what does that really have to do with anything. Do people now have the option of ignoring the police just because the cop is the wrong gender?

Quote:
Ah yes the notorious rape gangs led by women who impersonate police officers and strike in the brightly lit parking lots of upscale supermarkets. I've read about them.
Woman not women. Elizabeth Smart and Jaycee Lee Dugard were both kidnapped by men who had a women with them. Many women can very nervous about going out at night, depending on the neighborhood and situation.

...

It is always easier for the state to try to control the innocent than it is to attack real crime and control the real criminals.

Pulling out a gun and trying to break a car window in order to jail a sorority girl carrying bottle water. Great job guys.
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We've had a picture of the case, the water is completely enclosed in cardboard, honestly if I couldn't see the water label on it(due to being held) I'd've figured it was a fru fru drink. You don't see much water in cartons. I think maybe Poland spring does it, but beyond that I can't think of any. If you showed me that box without showing me the label 'bottled water' I'd assume it was booze.

BJ you don't drink fru fru drinks I'm guessing. I've seen plenty, college town. Not my cuppa, but then neither is beer. I gets me my alcohol from liquor.
 
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DaviddesJ wrote:
malloc wrote:
I think the idea of a state emplying a special force of law enforcement to harass kids who may be buying beer is crazy.
This seems to be the predominant issue of most who are griping here. They hate the idea of the police trying to stop teen drinking,
Fuck! David nailed us. We hate-hate-hate the idea of curtailing teen drinking. In fact, the only, sole, single reason all of us have to object to tossing that bubble-headed bitch in jail is that she wasn't already drunk and out of control.

Screw the cops... we want drunk teens!!!!
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DWTripp wrote:
Screw the cops... we want drunk teens!!!!
Well, you especially. But others perhaps not for that reason.
 
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bjlillo wrote:
DaviddesJ wrote:
gyc365 wrote:
Does anyone know (actual statistics):
* How dangerous it really is to be a cop, compared to, say, a lumberjack?
You can't measure "danger" with statistics. People are a lot more unpredictable than trees. If part of your job is trying to anticipate which of the 10,000 people you encounter is going to go nuts and pull a weapon on you, that's different than dealing with trees that will always behave according to the laws of physics.
Being a lumberjack is far more likely to be fatal than being a police officer. Yes, trees will always follow the laws of physics, but wood, soil, and weather aren't some uniform materials from a physics book that make for simple modeling. It's pretty obvious from this statement that you've never been near a chainsaw in your life. Lumberjacking is terrifying work that requires you to be constantly aware of your surroundings and even then you can have a tree kick out at you and knock you on your ass.
You shouldn't automatically assume people don't know what they're talking about

I chose lumberjack because it's a rather dangerous civil profession (always close to the top of the lists).

I made that comment because an earlier poster used an argument going something like this:
Being a policeman is an exceptionally dangerous profession, therefore they have a right to do (whatever bad thing(s) they did in the situation described/linked from the OP)

I have no problem with the police (and similar organizations) having a monopoly on legal violence. I'm all in favor of good policing ...

... but the police have to follow some rules too.

I don't believe "the badge" should give them the right to use violence on a whim whenever they have a "bad hair day".
 
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Shadrach wrote:
We've had a picture of the case, the water is completely enclosed in cardboard, honestly if I couldn't see the water label on it(due to being held) I'd've figured it was a fru fru drink. You don't see much water in cartons. I think maybe Poland spring does it, but beyond that I can't think of any. If you showed me that box without showing me the label 'bottled water' I'd assume it was booze.

BJ you don't drink fru fru drinks I'm guessing. I've seen plenty, college town. Not my cuppa, but then neither is beer. I gets me my alcohol from liquor.

The obvious assumption is that it's soda.
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