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Twilight Imperium (Third Edition)» Forums » Rules

Subject: Production rss

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Magne Ellen
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From the FAQ:

Q: Can a player build a Space Dock when executing the primary
ability of the Production Strategy?
A: No.


My question:

Q: Can a player build a Space Dock when executing the secondary
ability of the Production Strategy?

My take on this is that according to the rules, you can build a space dock with production secondary. However, that would give it an edge over primary ability. I would probably not allow it with the secondary, because I do not believe it was intended to be used at all to build space docks.

Rules As Written VS Rules as probably intended - Im going with what I think was intened - what do you think?
 
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John M
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I agree that Space Docks cannot be built using the secondary ability of the Production SC.

Also, from the TI3 rulebook, page 26:

BUILDING A NEW SPACE DOCK
In order to build a new Space Dock on a planet, the following requirements must be met:

1) The system (that contains the planet on which you want to build the Space Dock) has just been activated, and is currently at the “Production” step of the Activation or Transfer Sequence.


To me, that means the only time you can build a SD is during a Tactical or Transfer action.
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Necessary Evil
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You absolutely can NOT use production secondary to put a space dock on the board.

SD can only be build during the production portion of the tactical or transfer action.

The words on the production card itself say.

"immediately build up to 3 units in a system containing one or more friendly space docks."



Also, production will not allow you to build at a space dock purchased that turn.

-M
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David Damerell
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HeavyGear wrote:
BUILDING A NEW SPACE DOCK
In order to build a new Space Dock on a planet, the following requirements must be met:
1) The system (that contains the planet on which you want to build the Space Dock) has just been activated, and is currently at the “Production” step of the Activation or Transfer Sequence.
To me, that means the only time you can build a SD is during a Tactical or Transfer action.
The rulebook also describes the procedure for building new units. "In order to produce new units (other than a new Space Dock), players must activate (via a Tactical or Transfer Action)..." So by the same logic, Production cannot be used to produce units at all. Clearly the abilities on the Production card are over and above those normally described in the rules.

(NB: I don't think you can build a Space Dock with Production either; but I'm finding hard to construct a RAW argument why you can't, and I think the FAQ clarifying that it cannot be done with the primary ability is... unfortunate.)
 
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David Damerell
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malloc wrote:
The words on the production card itself say.
"immediately build up to 3 units in a system containing one or more friendly space docks."
Space Docks are a unit, so all this says is that you would have to be producing an additional Space Dock in a two- or three-planet system where you have one already, or be the Saar.

(Again, for the avoidance of doubt, I don't actually think you can do it. I hope the OP is really trying to ponder the inadvisability of excessively literal RAW arguments.)
 
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Scott Lewis
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The Production Primary says:

"...build units in one of your systems containing one or more friendly Space Docks..."

Secondary says:

"...build up to 3 units in one of your systems containing one or more friendly Space Docks..."

Nearly identical phrasing in these snips (the only difference is the secondary limits it to 3 units). The FAQ says the Primary doesn't allow building Space Docks with Production Primary; since they have the same phrasing, I can't really see any valid argument indicating that the Secondary allows you to build Space Docks when the Primary does not.
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David Damerell
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sigmazero13 wrote:
Nearly identical phrasing in these snips (the only difference is the secondary limits it to 3 units). The FAQ says the Primary doesn't allow building Space Docks with Production Primary; since they have the same phrasing, I can't really see any valid argument indicating that the Secondary allows you to build Space Docks when the Primary does not.
The obvious counterargument would be that the FAQ specifies the primary ability. Why would it do so if not because the secondary ability is different? (Other than "because that's insane" :-) )
 
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Scott Lewis
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damerell wrote:
sigmazero13 wrote:
Nearly identical phrasing in these snips (the only difference is the secondary limits it to 3 units). The FAQ says the Primary doesn't allow building Space Docks with Production Primary; since they have the same phrasing, I can't really see any valid argument indicating that the Secondary allows you to build Space Docks when the Primary does not.
The obvious counterargument would be that the FAQ specifies the primary ability. Why would it do so if not because the secondary ability is different? (Other than "because that's insane" :-) )
The counter-counterargument to that would be a good backhand
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Scott Randolph
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In general, while there may exist ambiguity in some TI3 & FFG rules, and sometimes some "fiddliness", I don't believe this one is one of those cases. IMHO, the rules are pretty clear, and they make sense (to me anyway)...one has to build the "factory" first, in one game round, then when the "factory" is completed, it can start producing "products" the next game round.
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Dangerous Partners
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HeavyGear wrote:
I agree that Space Docks cannot be built using the secondary ability of the Production SC.

Also, from the TI3 rulebook, page 26:

BUILDING A NEW SPACE DOCK
In order to build a new Space Dock on a planet, the following requirements must be met:

1) The system (that contains the planet on which you want to build the Space Dock) has just been activated, and is currently at the “Production” step of the Activation or Transfer Sequence.


To me, that means the only time you can build a SD is during a Tactical or Transfer action.
Quite bleedingly clear as day really, you'd think the phrase "the following requirements must be met" would click with people.
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David Damerell
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BeerAndBoard wrote:
Quite bleedingly clear as day really, you'd think the phrase "the following requirements must be met" would click with people.
Except that then it is equally clear that you can't build any other units with Production, since the criteria for building them include "during a Tactical or Transfer Action".
 
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David Damerell
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SFRR wrote:
IMHO, the rules are pretty clear, and they make sense (to me anyway)...one has to build the "factory" first, in one game round, then when the "factory" is completed, it can start producing "products" the next game round.
I think you're missing the point; nothing in the OP's interpretation suggests a violation of that rule.
 
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Dangerous Partners
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damerell wrote:
BeerAndBoard wrote:
Quite bleedingly clear as day really, you'd think the phrase "the following requirements must be met" would click with people.
Except that then it is equally clear that you can't build any other units with Production, since the criteria for building them include "during a Tactical or Transfer Action".
"the following requirements must be met" whistle
 
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Michael L
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It isn't allowed RAW.

From the full text explanation of Production, p15 SE Rules:
Quote:

The Production Strategy Card allows the active player
to produce units at one or more of his or her Space
Docks

The secondary ability allows the other players to
build units at one of their (activated or unactivated)
Space Docks, but with a limited production capacity
of 3 units.
The full rules specify you can only build units at a Space dock, whereas Space Docks themselves are produced at a planet.
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David Damerell
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BeerAndBoard wrote:
"the following requirements must be met" whistle
"In order to produce new units (other than a new Space Dock), players must activate (via a Tactical or Transfer Action) ..."
 
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David Damerell
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Nehkrimah wrote:
The full rules specify you can only build units at a Space dock, whereas Space Docks themselves are produced at a planet.
Oh, good save! And this also cuts off neatly the argument that since the Strategy Card says "in a system", you aren't constrained as to which planet of a multi-planet system you can place ground units on.
 
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