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Android: Netrunner» Forums » Rules

Subject: Chum plus Nisei MK II on next piece of ICE rss

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S. R.
Germany
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If Chum isnt broken and I use a Nisei Token on next piece encpuntered, does it fire? Thought no but confirmation anyone?
 
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Dirk Tebben
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For Chum to fire, the runner must:

a) encounter the ice;
b) not break the subroutines on the ice.

The paid-ability step where you seem to want to use Nisei is the one in which the runner can use icebreakers, step 3.1, so if he is able to break the subs, he can do so and prevent Chum from firing (although the run will still end after he does so).

This does work with Data Mine/Whirlpool when the runner has no AI breaker, or any other case in which the runner cannot or elects not to break all subs.
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Michael Norman
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I think this wouldn't work. As soon as the runner encounters the ice he has the opportunity to use paid abilities to break the ice before you have the opportunity to use your counter to end the run.
 
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Steven Tu
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mjnorman90 wrote:
I think this wouldn't work. As soon as the runner encounters the ice he has the opportunity to use paid abilities to break the ice before you have the opportunity to use your counter to end the run.
Nope, as soon as the runner encounters an ICE he can break as he is able, only after the runner relinquishes their timing window can the corp do stuff, by that time, broken subs are broken. Chum/Nisei combo doesn't work.
 
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Ony Moose
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It works with Whirlpool/DataMine/CellPortal in the sense that you can get the damage to go off without having the ICE self-destruct/derez so it will fire again if they re-run.

It also works *if* you could have astroscript pilot program and nisei in the same deck, as you could add a token to a woodcutter, then end the run with unbroken subs and there would be nothing the runner could do. Since you can't have Nisei and AstroScript in the same deck, however, you can't do it! (yet)
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Anson Ng
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Hi,

I dont fully understand this. If after you encounter Chum, dont you move back to step 2 of the time structure?

Chum
3.2 Resolve all subroutines not broken on the encountered ice.
...Either the run ends: go to [6]
...Or the run continues: if there is another piece of ice protecting the server, go to [2]; if there is not
another piece of ice protecting the server, go to [4].

after chum go back to Step 2 and step 2.1 is Paid abilities?
 
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Anson Ng
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ok, think i got this now. 2.1 is still approach and runner may still decide whether or not to encounter. but can the runner decide not to encounter?

for example,

in step 2.1, if corp uses nisei to end the run, does this mean that Chum subroutine will not trigger?

what if runner jacks out in 2.2, does this trigger Chum subroutine?

in step 2.3, if corp does not rez ice, does this mean Chum does not trigger?

seems that Chum will not trigger in all of this until 3.1 will actually happen. so the runner can always jack out if he doesnt want Chum to triggeR?
 
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Andrew Keddie
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You almost got it. Unless the runner hits 3.0 on the timing structure on another piece of ICE, Chum won't do anything. Usually that ALSO means they have a chance to hit 3.1 and break subroutines before you can use your Nisei Mk II token to end the run.

However, going slightly off-topic, the reason I corrected you above from 3.1 to 3.0 is because of bypass effects. Let's imagine you have a Tollbooth rezzed, and the Runner targets it with Femme Fatale. Then the runner makes a run and you rez a Chum before the Tollbooth, which the runner doesn't break. If the runner bypasses the Tollbooth, they still, crucially, encountered it at 3.0 so Chum will do damage because they didn't break the subroutine.
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